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Thread: Wayne: No Panic

  1. #46
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Wayne: No Panic

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandRed View Post
    Good post, Cyclone. I'll just toss out a couple of counterpoints for discussion's sake:

    In the last season-plus, I don't see a conclusive pattern of an exceptionally short leash for young players. There are a couple of data points -- Encarnacion and Denorfia. Even then, they could have re-signed Aurilia and made EE compete for his job again, but they didn't. They dumped vets to let Phillips play, they've been patient with Coffey, and I fully expect to see the utmost patience with Hamilton. And they've sent veterans down DFA Lane that weren't here very long.

    Like most front offices, they have players they like too much and players they don't like enough, and I don't always understand it. I just don't see it as a clearly young/old thing.

    Except that the Twins went right back to the veteran-mediocrity well this past offseason, at least where their starting rotation was concerned. They had kids lined up ready for a shot. Maybe they didn't want to force their hand and be in a position where the kids had to pitch, ready or not, but, c'mon, Sidney Ponson and Ramon Ortiz?
    Great points, IslandRed. You're right it's not clearly a young/old thing, but I'm thinking that there's a tendency of it leaning toward a young/old thing ... at least a bit more of a tendency than I'd prefer. Denorfia and Encarnacion are two key data points, like you said, and their handling of Denorfia last season baffled me.

    I think the two key areas where this is going to be something to watch going forward rather soon - besides the EE drama - are the bullpen (obviously) and perhaps also first base.

    For instance, I don't think Salmon will be a world-beater, but he's got enough qualities that I'd like to see him get an extended shot. When he gave up that two run bomb last week, it's almost as if you could feel his future chances diminishing into thin air. I'm not so sure that's a good thing. McBeth also just got the call; how will he be utilized? Will it be Stanton and Saarloos in high leverage situations still, or will McBeth get an extended opportunity to trump them?

    FWIW, I do think Coutlangus' role has been utilized fairly well so far, especially now that Cormier is history.

    First base will also be interesting very soon with Votto if he's able to continue to emerge. Consider ...

    '07 Reds 1B: .257/.331/.399/.730
    '07 NL 1B: .267/.357/.429/.785

    For the most part, the Reds got away with the veteran platoon in 2006. But that hasn't happened yet in 2007. My hope is their handling of Joey Votto revolves around what's best for the future regarding Joey Votto playing first base for the Reds. If they hold Votto down in AAA because they believe he's simply not ready, then that's fine. But if their reasoning for holding him down in AAA is because they just think the veteran platoon is the answer, then that's a potential sticking point.

    I'm not advocating the Reds bring Votto up now. It's just that first I hope they promote Votto when Votto shows he's ready. Second, whenever Votto does come up, I hope he isn't relegated to the bench after his first crucial error or his first 2-19 slump.
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  3. #47
    Lover of Trivialities Doc. Scott's Avatar
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    Re: Wayne: No Panic

    Some of you are obviously playing in my Out of the Park Baseball league. Every year in this simulation, half a dozen GMs trade every veteran established player they have just because their club was eight or ten games under .500 one-quarter of the way into the season.

    Of course, you can't run a major-league team that's an actual economic entity that way. And to expect Wayne Krivsky and Bob Castellini to do it that way will never happen. So say all you want, but don't bother holding your breath waiting for it.
    Last edited by Doc. Scott; 05-15-2007 at 05:55 PM.

  4. #48
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Wayne: No Panic

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc. Scott View Post
    Some of you are obviously playing in my Out of the Park Baseball league. Every year in this simulation, half a dozen GMs trade every veteran established player they have one-quarter of the way into the season just because their club was eight or ten games under .500 one-quarter of the way into the season.

    Of course, you can't run a major-league team that's an actual economic entity that way. And to expect Wayne Krivsky and Bob Castellini to do it that way will never happen. So say all you want, but don't bother holding your breath waiting for it to happen.
    True, though I imagine Jr., Weathers and Dunn could find themselves on the market if the club is still in the cellar come July 1.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  5. #49
    Lover of Trivialities Doc. Scott's Avatar
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    Re: Wayne: No Panic

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    True, though I imagine Jr., Weathers and Dunn could find themselves on the market if the club is still in the cellar come July 1.
    No argument here on that. I'd personally like to see Dunn retained, but I can't doubt that he might be dealt if things don't improve.

  6. #50
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: Wayne: No Panic

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    True, though I imagine Jr., Weathers and Dunn could find themselves on the market if the club is still in the cellar come July 1.
    That's about right. We might be itching to get on with it, and there can be advantages to being the first seller in line, but it takes awhile for the buyer's market to coalesce. A team has to pronounce itself a genuine Series contender, and believe it knows exactly what it needs to get there, before it will put the good stuff on the trading table.
    For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible

  7. #51
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: Wayne: No Panic

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post

    While Krivsky was in Minnesota, the Twins seemed to also partake in that very same disturbing trend regarding veteran players and young talent, and IIRC Steel documented this very well about a year ago.
    You remember correctly, sir.

    BTW, I'm watching the Padres broadcast of tonight's game and it's interesting that the announcing crew is taking every opportunity to compliment Kevin Kouzmanoff- who's obviously started off poorly both offensively and defensively.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
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  8. #52
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Wayne: No Panic

    Steel! welcome back dude.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  9. #53
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Wayne: No Panic

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    You remember correctly, sir.

    BTW, I'm watching the Padres broadcast of tonight's game and it's interesting that the announcing crew is taking every opportunity to compliment Kevin Kouzmanoff- who's obviously started off poorly both offensively and defensively.
    Hey stranger. Good to see you.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  10. #54
    Member Eric_Davis's Avatar
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    Re: Wayne: No Panic

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    I guess I'm failing to see the problem here. Jerry and Johnny aren't joined at the hip. Just because one goes doesn't mean the other will follow. If Johnny Narron weren't coaching for the Reds, he'd be coaching in A ball for the Brewers. I don't know about you but to me a major league coaching job is a lot more attractive than unemployment or coaching in A ball. Do you actually think Johnny will quit if Jerry gets fired?
    Yes, if Jerry Narron had the ability to call his own shots and manage any team he wants, but that's not the case, so, as you said, Johnny Narron has no real choice but to stay. It's not like Jerry Narron hasn't had a chance.

    These comments by Wayne Krivsky I agreed with whole-heartedly until I saw the 10th inning tonight. But, I think they Narron and Krivsky communicate well together and that's important. I'd rather have Narron than Bob Boone, though. That doesn't mean much considering that no one is knocking down Boones door to manage again.
    Rob Neyer: "Any writer who says he'd be a better manager than the worst manager is either 1) lying (i.e. 'using poetic license') or 2) patently delusional. Which isn't to say managers don't do stupid things that you or I wouldn't."

  11. #55
    Member Eric_Davis's Avatar
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    Re: Wayne: No Panic

    What's interesting about Dunn is as much as he gets harped on he's 3rd among Left Fielders in the Majors (just not the NL) in Total Bases, and 1st in Runs Scored. He's also 6th in Hits and 2nd in Stolen Bases and 1st in (SB minus CS). He's 2nd in Walks, and so far dead last in Strikeouts that he has 59% more strikeouts than the next worst in Strikeouts among Left Fielders.

    Maybe that's not so bad.

    He's 1st in Triples, and 3rd in OPS. He's also 1st in # of pitches per plate appearance, so he stretches pitchers out.

    Guess he goes by the quote from the avatar of "Pick one you like and bash it". He's also 2nd in Extra-base hits.

    It's that darn RISP that always bugs us. But, heck. He's 3rd in RunsCreated/27Outs at 7.58, 2.08 more than Carlos Lee, who leads the league in RBI's. (That difference just changed after Lee's 4-4 2HR's, 4RS, 2RBI night tonight).

    I don't know what ISOP means, but Dunn is 2nd in that by a good margin at .321, and he's 2nd in SECA (whatever that is) at .521, just ahead of Pat Burrell, who's having a horrible year at the plate.

    And he's 3rd in RC at 29.2.


    FWIW, a guy named Barry Bonds leads most categories.
    Rob Neyer: "Any writer who says he'd be a better manager than the worst manager is either 1) lying (i.e. 'using poetic license') or 2) patently delusional. Which isn't to say managers don't do stupid things that you or I wouldn't."

  12. #56
    You know his story Redsland's Avatar
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    Re: Wayne: No Panic

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    You remember correctly, sir.
    You're back!

    Makes all the routine posts.

  13. #57
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    Re: Wayne: No Panic

    who's obviously started off poorly both offensively and defensively.
    Plus they traded young meat for him.

    Good to see you my man, good to see you.

  14. #58
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Wayne: No Panic

    Welcome back Steel
    Go Gators!

  15. #59
    Puffy 3:16 Puffy's Avatar
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    Re: Wayne: No Panic

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    You remember correctly, sir.

    BTW, I'm watching the Padres broadcast of tonight's game and it's interesting that the announcing crew is taking every opportunity to compliment Kevin Kouzmanoff- who's obviously started off poorly both offensively and defensively.
    Whats up Steel One?

    Good to have you back
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    Re: Wayne: No Panic

    Welcome back Steel!


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