Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 26

Thread: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Radford, Virginia
    Posts
    282

    Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Senor Votto Degenerate39's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,917

    Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?

    I didn't know there was one.
    Most Vottomatic Player

  3. #3
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    26,512

    Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?

    Well if you have 3 lefties back to back to back, the opposing manger can bring in one lefty specialist for all 3 batters...if you break them up, then the manager had to decide what to do about the righty....maybe they have to use 2 extra pitchers now...


    That's the thought process, I guess, but to me it sounds more like a manager outmanaging himself.....the opposing manager isn't going to panic because there's a righty breaking up the lefties. He'll simply bring in a different reliever and save the specialist for a different situation...

    Just put your best hitters in the best places for them to have success. If that means Griffey, Dunn, Hamilton...then so be it.
    Last edited by Matt700wlw; 05-15-2007 at 08:04 PM.

  4. #4
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    25,434

    Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw View Post
    Well if you have 3 lefties back to back to back, the opposing manger can bring in one lefty specialist for all 3 batters...if you break them up, then the manager had to decide what to do about the righty....maybe they have to use 2 extra pitchers now...


    That's the thought process, I guess, but to me it sounds more like a manager outmanaging himself.....the opposing manager isn't going to panic because there's a righty breaking up the lefties. He'll simply bring in a different reliever and save the specialist for a different situation...

    Just put your best hitters in the best places for them to have success. If that means Griffey, Dunn, Hamilton...then so be it.
    You summed it up pretty well. However, as you hinted too, Narron holds to it way to much. Tonight's a perfect example. He splits up Griffey and Dunn with Conine. Griffey and Dunn are obviously better hitters, but he does it anyway.

    There's advantages to splitting up the lefites, but when you put a guy like Conine between them it does more hurt then harm.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Virginia Beach
    Posts
    302

    Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?

    I called Jerry Narron and asked him (we go way back) and he told me the advantage is 9 to 1 divided by the square root of scrappy. Then multiply that by 2 and it equals a quality lineup. How can you argue with that?

  6. #6
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Cincy West
    Posts
    5,073

    Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?

    Quote Originally Posted by CWRed View Post
    I called Jerry Narron and asked him (we go way back) and he told me the advantage is 9 to 1 divided by the square root of scrappy. Then multiply that by 2 and it equals a quality lineup. How can you argue with that?
    ok, now I get it.

  7. #7
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    4,754

    Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?

    One down side to not breaking up left handed hitters, is genius managers like Bob Boone are less prone to go out to the mound and make 3 consecutive pitching changes to 3 different batters in the same inning, leaving us all in awe over their ingenious, strategic moves!!!
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

  8. #8
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    19,066

    Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    You summed it up pretty well. However, as you hinted too, Narron holds to it way to much. Tonight's a perfect example. He splits up Griffey and Dunn with Conine. Griffey and Dunn are obviously better hitters, but he does it anyway.

    There's advantages to splitting up the lefites, but when you put a guy like Conine between them it does more hurt then harm.
    The platoon effect is a real one. For their careers, Griffey and Dunn both have OPS's that are roughly 10% lower against lefties than righties. Hamilton has yet to prove he can hit major league lefties. So the notion of splitting your lefties up is a reasonable one and it goes deeper than just worrying about a late inning LOOGY. Any lefty would have an advantage with those three guys in a row and a bonified LOOGY would have a much better chance of shutting the Reds down in a late inning, high leverage situation.

    That being said though, as pointed out earlier, this team really doesn't have a quality right-handed bat that could break up Griffey and Dunn. The closest thing they have is EE's potential (and really that's as roughly a league average thirdbaseman).

    Also, Hamilton really has no business in the 3 thru 5 slots. I might consider him in the 2 hole because he makes contact and has speed but even then, I'm not sure he can get on base enough. There are currently 8 Reds position players with at least 90 at bats who see more pitches per PA than Hamilton so despite the belief that he is patient and sees alot of pitches, that's not even an argument for him as a #2 hitter. Until he proves himself, Hamilton really should be no higher than #6 IMHO....
    Last edited by jojo; 05-16-2007 at 11:58 AM.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Dayton, Ohio
    Posts
    103

    Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?

    To me there is no advantage. If you can hit, you can hit and it makes no sense to put a .240 hitter in between your power hitters.
    Besides, you still have to hit against the same pitcher. So what if we have lefties hitting 3, 4, and 5 or 3, 5, and 7.
    I think managers think too much.

  10. #10
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    4,754

    Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?

    Quote Originally Posted by Driver62 View Post
    I think managers think too much.
    The bad ones do anyway.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

  11. #11
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    5,872

    Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    That being said though, as pointed out earlier, this team really doesn't have a quality right-handed bat that could break up Griffey and Dunn. The closest thing they have is EE's potential (and really that's as roughly a league average thirdbaseman).
    Right. In fact, the Reds haven't had a quality RH bat that you could feel comfortable inserting in the 3 or 4 spot for quite some time. Greg Vaughn was really the last one.

    E_E *might* become a more consistent offensive threat, but his numbers last year alone don't really warrant that. Looking down into the minors, neither Bruce or Votto are right-handed batters. Beyond them, the pickings get pretty slim.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  12. #12
    Your killin' me Smalls! StillFunkyB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Florence, KY
    Posts
    3,129

    Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    The platoon effect is a real one. For their careers, Griffey and Dunn both have OPS's that are roughly 10% lower against lefties than righties. Hamilton has yet to prove he can hit major league lefties. So the notion of splitting your lefties up is a reasonable one and it goes deeper than just worrying about a late inning LOOGY. Any lefty would have an advantage with those three guys in a row and a bonified LOOGY would have a much better chance of shutting the Reds down in a late inning, high leverage situation.

    That being said though, as pointed out earlier, this team really doesn't have a quality right-handed bat that could break up Griffey and Dunn. The closest thing they have is EE's potential (and really that's as roughly a league average thirdbaseman).

    Also, Hamilton really has no business in the 3 thru 5 slots. I might consider him in the 2 hole because he makes contact and has speed but even then, I'm not sure he can get on base enough. There are currently 8 Reds position players with at least 90 at bats who see more pitches per PA than Hamilton so despite the belief that he is patient and sees alot of pitches, that's not even an argument for him as a #2 hitter. Until he proves himself, Hamilton really should be no higher than #6 IMHO....
    Well said.

  13. #13
    Member DannyB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Fort Lauderdale
    Posts
    806

    Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?

    (10)

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    85

    Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?

    Well said... I'd like to add that I've always found it funny that managers worry about that one time when the other manager brings in a lefty as opposed to the other 2 or 3 ABs that those hitters have...

  15. #15
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    5,872

    Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?

    Quote Originally Posted by noskill27 View Post
    Well said... I'd like to add that I've always found it funny that managers worry about that one time when the other manager brings in a lefty as opposed to the other 2 or 3 ABs that those hitters have...
    That's a really good point too. Why worry about the seventh inning when you're wasting ABs in the first through the sixth?
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25