Turn Off Ads?
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 26 of 26

Thread: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?

  1. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    368

    Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?

    It's one of the few (only?) aspects of baseball strategy that Narron appears to have the capacity to understand. Accordingly, it drives nearly every decision he makes, whether the result makes any sense or not, from lineup construction to, i.e., bringing in a struggling Mike Stanton to pitch to a left handed hitter in a crucial situation.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #17
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    18,888

    Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    You summed it up pretty well. However, as you hinted too, Narron holds to it way to much. Tonight's a perfect example. He splits up Griffey and Dunn with Conine. Griffey and Dunn are obviously better hitters, but he does it anyway.

    There's advantages to splitting up the lefites, but when you put a guy like Conine between them it does more hurt then harm.
    The platoon effect is a real one. For their careers, Griffey and Dunn both have OPS's that are roughly 10% lower against lefties than righties. Hamilton has yet to prove he can hit major league lefties. So the notion of splitting your lefties up is a reasonable one and it goes deeper than just worrying about a late inning LOOGY. Any lefty would have an advantage with those three guys in a row and a bonified LOOGY would have a much better chance of shutting the Reds down in a late inning, high leverage situation.

    That being said though, as pointed out earlier, this team really doesn't have a quality right-handed bat that could break up Griffey and Dunn. The closest thing they have is EE's potential (and really that's as roughly a league average thirdbaseman).

    Also, Hamilton really has no business in the 3 thru 5 slots. I might consider him in the 2 hole because he makes contact and has speed but even then, I'm not sure he can get on base enough. There are currently 8 Reds position players with at least 90 at bats who see more pitches per PA than Hamilton so despite the belief that he is patient and sees alot of pitches, that's not even an argument for him as a #2 hitter. Until he proves himself, Hamilton really should be no higher than #6 IMHO....
    Last edited by jojo; 05-16-2007 at 11:58 AM.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  4. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Dayton, Ohio
    Posts
    103

    Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?

    To me there is no advantage. If you can hit, you can hit and it makes no sense to put a .240 hitter in between your power hitters.
    Besides, you still have to hit against the same pitcher. So what if we have lefties hitting 3, 4, and 5 or 3, 5, and 7.
    I think managers think too much.

  5. #19
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    4,742

    Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?

    Quote Originally Posted by Driver62 View Post
    I think managers think too much.
    The bad ones do anyway.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

  6. #20
    You know his story Redsland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Posts
    7,714

    Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?

    Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?
    It inserts outs between your best hitters?

    Makes all the routine posts.

  7. #21
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    5,872

    Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?

    Quote Originally Posted by noskill27 View Post
    Well said... I'd like to add that I've always found it funny that managers worry about that one time when the other manager brings in a lefty as opposed to the other 2 or 3 ABs that those hitters have...
    That's a really good point too. Why worry about the seventh inning when you're wasting ABs in the first through the sixth?
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  8. #22
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    15,550

    Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?

    I agree with Narron's thinking 'cause most teams do have a LH specialist in the pen. We've all seen them mow down the likes of Dunn and Griffey in late inning situations. Now the issue of whether he has a competent RH hitter to put in there gets back to the limited pieces he has to work with. I thought Phillips did pretty well in the cleanup hole even though that's not something we want to see for 162 games.

    My problems with Narron are more along the lines of asking players to do things they don't do well like bunting. There are very few decent bunters on this team and until that changes, asking them to bunt is a low percentage call. I also have to hold the manager accountable for a team playing like it doesn't care.

    It's poor play from guys like EE, Mike Stanton and Todd Coffey that make Narron's managerial moves look bad rather than vice versa.

  9. #23
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    5,872

    Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    That being said though, as pointed out earlier, this team really doesn't have a quality right-handed bat that could break up Griffey and Dunn. The closest thing they have is EE's potential (and really that's as roughly a league average thirdbaseman).
    Right. In fact, the Reds haven't had a quality RH bat that you could feel comfortable inserting in the 3 or 4 spot for quite some time. Greg Vaughn was really the last one.

    E_E *might* become a more consistent offensive threat, but his numbers last year alone don't really warrant that. Looking down into the minors, neither Bruce or Votto are right-handed batters. Beyond them, the pickings get pretty slim.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  10. #24
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    5,872

    Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    It's poor play from guys like EE, Mike Stanton and Todd Coffey that make Narron's managerial moves look bad rather than vice versa.
    I'll agree that the team's play hasn't helped make Narron look any better. But there is never, ever an excuse for batting the likes of Hatteberg or Conine in the 3 or 4 spot. If the question comes down to batting Junior and Dunn back-to-back, or watching Jeff Conine bat cleanup, that decision should be a no-brainer.
    Last edited by registerthis; 05-17-2007 at 02:46 PM.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  11. #25
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Colorado's eastern plains
    Posts
    11,232

    Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis View Post
    If the question comes down to batting Junior and Dunn back-to-back, or watching Jeff Conine bat cleanup, that decision should be a no-brainer.
    From the cleanup spot:

    Junior - .863 OPS in 49 plate appearances
    Conine - .642 OPS in 50 plate appearances

    Dunn has only had 4 plate appearances (1 game) in the cleanup spot. He's 1-3 with a walk and a homerun.

    You are correct. It should be a no-brainer.

  12. #26
    Your killin' me Smalls! StillFunkyB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Florence, KY
    Posts
    3,128

    Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    The platoon effect is a real one. For their careers, Griffey and Dunn both have OPS's that are roughly 10% lower against lefties than righties. Hamilton has yet to prove he can hit major league lefties. So the notion of splitting your lefties up is a reasonable one and it goes deeper than just worrying about a late inning LOOGY. Any lefty would have an advantage with those three guys in a row and a bonified LOOGY would have a much better chance of shutting the Reds down in a late inning, high leverage situation.

    That being said though, as pointed out earlier, this team really doesn't have a quality right-handed bat that could break up Griffey and Dunn. The closest thing they have is EE's potential (and really that's as roughly a league average thirdbaseman).

    Also, Hamilton really has no business in the 3 thru 5 slots. I might consider him in the 2 hole because he makes contact and has speed but even then, I'm not sure he can get on base enough. There are currently 8 Reds position players with at least 90 at bats who see more pitches per PA than Hamilton so despite the belief that he is patient and sees alot of pitches, that's not even an argument for him as a #2 hitter. Until he proves himself, Hamilton really should be no higher than #6 IMHO....
    Well said.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25