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Thread: Whither Greg Vaughn?

  1. #1
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Whither Greg Vaughn?

    Not really, but someone like him. This 2007 Reds team is no less on talent than the 1999 "Surprise" Reds were, IMO. The difference between that 1999 team, and every team since, was the presence of Mr. Vaughn.

    Players mentioned back then that Greg Vaughn was the clubhouse leader on the team. He came over from from the Padres, ostensibly for Reggie Sanders, that year, and made it known that he wasn't going to accept losing. Nearly every interview we heard, players were singing the laurels of Mr. Vaughn.

    So, what happened between then and now? Vaughn was allowed to leave and go to the Devil Rays as a free agent. Mike Cameron and Brett Tomko were dealt to the Mariners in the deal for Ken Griffey Jr. Junior is a helluva player, among my favorites of all time, but he's not a clubhouse leader. His personality doesn't let him be that guy to get in other players' faces and motivate them to play better.

    The young kids who've come up through the system in the years between then and now, Dunn and Kearns chief among them, have not had a teammate in that locker room who has made it clear that losing isn't acceptable, and losing has become the cultural norm for the Cincinnati Reds ballclub.

    For all of those who say that the make-up of a team doesn't matter, I offer exhibit A. Greg Vaughn, clubhouse leader, and considered by his peers as the driving force that led the 1999 Reds to within 1 game of the playoffs.

    This team needs an enema in that locker room, someone like Greg Vaughn to come in and say we're better than this, and we're not going to accept losing anymore. If we lose, get angry and go back out there tomorrow, and let yesterday's loss drive you to want victory today that much more.

    There's 25 guys in that locker room, and 25 different personalities. I think it'd really help if just one of those personalities was a little bit more like Greg Vaughn.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

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  3. #2
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Whither Greg Vaughn?

    I was sure happy when the Reds won the World Series that year. They couldn't have done it without Vaughn.
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  4. #3
    You know his story Redsland's Avatar
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    Re: Whither Greg Vaughn?

    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    This 2007 Reds team is no less on talent than the 1999 "Surprise" Reds were, IMO.
    Except that the '99 team had a spectacular bullpen, outstanding defense up the middle, and was comprised largely of young players with lots of upside.
    Makes all the routine posts.

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    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Whither Greg Vaughn?

    This team has outstanding defense up the middle, and is comprised largely of young players with lots of upside.

    I don't think we need to talk about the bullpen.

    And, while that 1999 Reds team didn't win the World Series, it was the last good team to play down by the river in a long time.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

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    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Whither Greg Vaughn?

    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    And, while that 1999 Reds team didn't win the World Series, it was the last good team to play down by the river in a long time.

    Oh, they didn't? Well, I sure had a good time when they won the NL pennant.
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    Re: Whither Greg Vaughn?

    10 guys on the 99 team hit 10 or more HRs. Don't see that happening with the 07 Reds.

    Ed Taubensee, Pokey Reese, and Sean Casey all had career years at the plate.

    Steve Parris had an unreal year...until he met up with Al Leiter.

    The 99 and 07 bullpens, though, couldn't be any more different.

    The weak link in the in the 1999 chain: Brett Tomko. If he had pulled his head out of his butt at any point during the season, the Reds woulda been the Wild Card team that year.

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    Last edited by klw; 05-18-2007 at 04:44 PM.

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    Re: Whither Greg Vaughn?

    Quote Originally Posted by 15fan View Post
    The weak link in the in the 1999 chain: Brett Tomko. If he had pulled his head out of his butt at any point during the season, the Reds woulda been the Wild Card team that year.

    Wait a second, they didn't even win the wild card? I would have thought with a player like Greg Vaughn on that team they would at least have won the wild card. If he was so great why didn't they win the wild card? Where was that leadership during that lost weekend in Milwaukee? On that chilly Monday night against the Mets?

    Actuall, the last good team to play down by the river was the Reds of 2000. Finished 8 games above .500 they did. And with Jr. and without Vaughn.
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    Re: Whither Greg Vaughn?

    Quote Originally Posted by 15fan View Post
    10 guys on the 99 team hit 10 or more HRs. Don't see that happening with the 07 Reds.
    Probably true, unless EdE gets back up here, but it's not out of the realm of possibility. Dunn, Junior, Gonzalez, Hamilton, and Phillips are locks to hit more than 10 homers. Hatteberg, Ross, and perhaps Conine have a chance.


    Quote Originally Posted by 15fan View Post
    The 99 and 07 bullpens, though, couldn't be any more different.
    True, but I think this starting rotation is better, and a little smart front office management, the bullpen is fixable.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  11. #10
    You know his story Redsland's Avatar
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    Re: Whither Greg Vaughn?

    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    This team has outstanding defense up the middle, and is comprised largely of young players with lots of upside.
    IIRC, this team has the second-worst defense in the league.

    Dunn, Hamilton, and Phillips are the only starting position players younger than 30. Hopper and Keppinger round out the under-30 set.
    Makes all the routine posts.

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    Re: Whither Greg Vaughn?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Oh, they didn't? Well, I sure had a good time when they won the NL pennant.
    Har har. You aren't being a smart-aleck here, by any chance, are you?

    Typically, winning 96 games and being 30 games over .500 gets you into the playoffs--and frequently more than that. Just so happens the Astros had a heckuva year as well, and the Reds ran into a buzzsaw by the name of Milwaukee at the end of the year.

    But you knew that.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

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    Re: Whither Greg Vaughn?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Actuall, the last good team to play down by the river was the Reds of 2000. Finished 8 games above .500 they did.
    Finished 10 games out of first place, too.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  14. #13
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Whither Greg Vaughn?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsland View Post
    IIRC, this team has the second-worst defense in the league.

    Dunn, Hamilton, and Phillips are the only starting position players younger than 30. Hopper and Keppinger round out the under-30 set.
    Yeah, but Gonzalez, Phillips and Hamilton are pretty strong up the middle.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

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    Re: Whither Greg Vaughn?

    I certainly was more willing to go spend my head-earned dollars down at the ballpark in 99.

    Sad part is that I have more now and they're not as hard-earned.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

  16. #15
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    Re: Whither Greg Vaughn?

    Here's a link to an article claiming that Vaughn was juicing in 98 and 99. I don't know what the guy is claiming for a source.
    Link removed
    Last edited by klw; 05-18-2007 at 06:18 PM. Reason: to remove link, article doesn't cite sources of some pretty inflamatory things


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