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Thread: Narron Support

  1. #1
    Montani Semper Liberi
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    Narron Support

    I've seen all the posts on Narron and how he needs to be gone. My question to the nay sayers is, exactly what is he doing wrong ? In my opinion he has tried everything with this bunch except putting himself and the other coaches in the lineup. Here are some reasons it's not his fault this team is bad.

    1. He can't pitch for the Bull Pen.
    2. He can't hit for the players.
    3. He has tried every combination of line ups and batting orders possible.
    4. He shouldn't have to motivate high paid professionals to excel at their craft.
    5. He has to have the quality players to be able to manage them and win.
    6. I haven't seen him make a call that cost us a game.
    7. He has even started leaving the starters in longer than the norm to try and stay out of the Bull Pen.

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  3. #2
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Narron Support

    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    3. He has tried every combination of line ups and batting orders possible.
    Do you like Adam Dunn batting 6th? Alex Gonzalez in the cleanup spot? Juan Castro starting?
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  4. #3
    Montani Semper Liberi
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    Re: Narron Support

    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    Do you like Adam Dunn batting 6th? Alex Gonzalez in the cleanup spot? Juan Castro starting?
    Didn't say which lineup I liked. All I said is he's trying different combinations to try to get something that will work.

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    Re: Narron Support

    he is stubborn, past obstinate ,continues to run the same combinations out there, is a proven loser and spews out 1950's bromides about beteran leadership. In short he is a facelss, namelss mediocrity as a manager inspiring no one, performing as a manger analagously to his playing career. A useless cheap retread. And I love his bringing in of Coffey and Stanton when the season had meaning in April. Now he gets to do more social experimentation as the season is already meaningless in Mid may. I also applaud his handling of EE. That makes sense, play Castro, an effete, impotent scrub at 3rd base nonetheless. When the moron writes his name at third base in the line up card, what quantity do he think he is getting from Castro,a player so bad that Vin Scully even lampoons him on the air.

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    Re: Narron Support

    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    Do you like Adam Dunn batting 6th? Alex Gonzalez in the cleanup spot? Juan Castro starting?
    Thats what gripes me the most. He keeps hitting Dunn and Hamilton behind Gonzo. If they were winning and scoring runs than maybe, but after a two weeks of losing its time wake up.Gonzo was signed to play defense not to hit 5th.
    "Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser."

  7. #6
    Montani Semper Liberi
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    Re: Narron Support

    Quote Originally Posted by redsupport View Post
    he is stubborn, past obstinate ,continues to run the same combinations out there, is a proven loser and spews out 1950's bromides about beteran leadership. In short he is a facelss, namelss mediocrity as a manager inspiring no one, performing as a manger analagously to his playing career. A useless cheap retread. And I love his bringing in of Coffey and Stanton when the season had meaning in April. Now he gets to do more social experimentation as the season is already meaningless in Mid may. I also applaud his handling of EE. That makes sense, play Castro, an effete, impotent scrub at 3rd base nonetheless. When the moron writes his name at third base in the line up card, what quantity do he think he is getting from Castro,a player so bad that Vin Scully even lampoons him on the air.
    Nice points. So basically we hire another manager and he will make Gonzalez a top hitter at SS, Dunn hit for average,in the clutch and be able to play LF like an average Major Leaguer, the Bull Pen will miraculously be good, EE will play like Brooks Robinson, Ross will become Johnny Bench,ect.,ect., ect. This team doesn't have the personel to win and firing Narron won't change that.

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    Re: Narron Support

    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    Do you like Adam Dunn batting 6th? Alex Gonzalez in the cleanup spot? Juan Castro starting?
    I don't mind Dunn hitting 6th, but I don't like Castro starting and Gonzo hitting cleanup.

    My biggest problem with Jerry is that his absolute refusal to put our best lineup out there simply because there's a LHP on the mound. I can't remember the last time we didn't have Griffey/Hamilton/Dunn in the lineup on the same night w/ a LHP.

    It's simply laughable to not play all three of those guys every night.

  9. #8
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Narron Support

    And to think, our biggest fear in the offseason was that Narron would bat Gonzo leadoff.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

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    Re: Narron Support

    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    This team doesn't have the personel to win and firing Narron won't change that.
    Now let's not be letting common sense get in the way of a good Narron bashing.

  11. #10
    Montani Semper Liberi
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    Re: Narron Support

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    Now let's not be letting common sense get in the way of a good Narron bashing.
    You may be right, that would throw a rock in the gears

  12. #11
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    Re: Narron Support

    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    I've seen all the posts on Narron and how he needs to be gone. My question to the nay sayers is, exactly what is he doing wrong ? In my opinion he has tried everything with this bunch except putting himself and the other coaches in the lineup. Here are some reasons it's not his fault this team is bad.

    1. He can't pitch for the Bull Pen.
    2. He can't hit for the players.
    3. He has tried every combination of line ups and batting orders possible.
    4. He shouldn't have to motivate high paid professionals to excel at their craft.
    5. He has to have the quality players to be able to manage them and win.
    6. I haven't seen him make a call that cost us a game.
    7. He has even started leaving the starters in longer than the norm to try and stay out of the Bull Pen.
    1. He can't, but he can make better selections as to which arm to bring out of the pen. He doesn't play the matchups very well at all, IMO.

    2. He sure doesn't hit, but he can make better hitting strategy decisions. I understand they're all major leaguers, but don't call for a bunt with a guy who can't get the bunt down b/c it's out of his normal repetoire.

    3. Trying combinations is great, but trying to mold a cohesive unit is better, IMO. Unfortunately we don't have a legitimate 2 spot hitter, but we have a quasi leadoff guy, and we have guys suited for the 3-5 spots. The problem is when he bats those guys that should be in the 3-5 in other spots. He does this quite often. Also, having Norris Hopper and Juan Castro start ballgames is just criminally stupid. Narron can't honestly or sincerely tell us we have a chance to win with those two in the lineup.

    4. It's becoming clear this team has zero faith in Narron, so he should try everything possible to him to motivate his team. If anything, he's great at killing their phyches and egos. He's really handling that EE situation well, isn't he? Managers should motivate their players, regardless of salary of the player(s).

    5. He has some quality players, but he's putting them in situations to fail rather than succeed. If you have no faith in your bullpen, then tell the GM to get you different guys, or promote some guys from AAA. Refusing to use what you have is unprofessional, IMO. Play to your players' collective strengths, rather than expose their weaknesses.

    6. Did you see the game where he brought Arroyo back in the 9th after pitching 110 pitches rather than going to the bullpen? Did you see the game when he asked EE to bunt? Narron makes bad decisions, period.

    7. Right now we are a sub .400 ballclub. Why on Earth would you tax your starters rather than go to the pen for auditions? Don't blow out starters' arms b/c you have no faith in your pen. Protect Harang and Arroyo, and possibly Lohse. Let's all be glad that Homer isn't up, or else I'm sure we would quickly get used to him having 120+ pitch outings on a regular basis.

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    Re: Narron Support

    He's may not be to blame for this mess, but ultimately he's the man who is responsible. Those are two different things, although people find it hard to separate them at times.

    When I watch the Reds play, I see a fundamentally atrocious ballclub that shows very little fire to compete. It's hard to tell they're in a tailspin right now because nobody seems to care. The clubhouse has zero leadership, and it's completely evident that none is coming from the manager's chair.

    That's why Narron should be gone.

  14. #13
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    Re: Narron Support

    Quote Originally Posted by Legion of Dunn View Post
    He's may not be to blame for this mess, but ultimately he's the man who is responsible.
    I disagree, I think it ultimately falls in the laps of the players who are the ones not getting the job done. I seriously doubt any manager, no matter how many different tweaks to the lineup, bullpen useage, etc., would be able to squeeze out any more wins from this team than Narron.

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    Re: Narron Support

    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    I've seen all the posts on Narron and how he needs to be gone. My question to the nay sayers is, exactly what is he doing wrong ?

    4. He shouldn't have to motivate high paid professionals to excel at their craft.
    Good point. Wish Lou Pinella had you to advise him in 1990 when he came out, went berserk and pulled up the bases and stomped on them.
    Or when Pete Rose (remember him, manager who didn't like to lose) bumped an umpire in a raging argument and got booted and fined.
    They didn't have to motivate highly paid professionals. But they did anyway. Seemed to work well too, instead of that bloodless cool that watches the team sink into the bottom of the worst division in the league.
    Ever remember a team Pete Rose was on that finished last. Ever?

  16. #15
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    Re: Narron Support

    A manager sets the tone, expectations, and the climate in which a team or unit operates. If I am ae employee (player) on an underperforming team and see a perceived lack of urgency or anger by my leader in regard to our situation, I could very easily join into the malaise.


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