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Thread: Arroyo's Outing

  1. #1
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Arroyo's Outing

    62 pitches, 30 strikes. Perhaps the 126 pitch San Diego start took a lot out of him. he looked unsure of his fastball and he couldn't place his breaking ball.

    Moments like that and you ponder Narron and the previous workload he was encumbered with this past week. On the other hand Narron yanked him quick enough to not incur greater damage on his arm or the scoreboard.

    And yet his 2 inning start is something to think about when he takes the mound next, fatigue? Or something else?

    Also note that the comeback has pushed that outing off the pages of the local paper.

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    Just The Big Picture macro's Avatar
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    Re: Arroyo's Outing

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Also note that the comeback has pushed that outing off the pages of the local paper.
    That's just what I was thinking as the game ended last night. The win was nice (and needed), but did it ease the pain of Arroyo's performance a bit too much? At this point, I'm going to remain optimistic that he was either not rested or that it was just one of those nights. But he needs to be watched very carefully in his next start or two.

    I don't know much about pitching mechanics, but I'd be interested to hear from those who can pick up on things that might hint at an injury.

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    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: Arroyo's Outing

    Arroyo didn't get some calls he think he deserved...from the get go.
    I think he threw a few "well..see if this is a strike" balls up there in frustration. The pitch for Zimmerman's double certainly looked like that.

    It looked like his head wasn't in the game. I wouldn't be surprised if mentioned that to Narron and Jerry took him out.
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

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    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Arroyo's Outing

    The only thing that saves Narron in my mind from a ferocious mistake is his quick pull on Arroyo last night. Arroyo never should have gone back out to run his count to 129 before that, a bunch of folks on here were Defcon 5 on that at the time, and last night looks like the payback for that decision. At the least Narron didn't compound the mistake by leaving him out there past the second inning.
    Last edited by membengal; 05-22-2007 at 10:54 AM.

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    Hot Stove Season HotCorner's Avatar
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    Re: Arroyo's Outing

    He should have gotten out of the first without a run scored. Dunn and Gonzalez botch the fly ball by Lopez into a hit. Guzman walks on a very iffy full count pitch. Zimmerman hits one to the base of the wall in center that Hopper should have had but took a poor angle/route to it.

  7. #6
    You know his story Redsland's Avatar
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    Re: Arroyo's Outing

    Yes, he was having some trouble locating, but the strike zone was all over the place last night. Sometimes (but not always) it drifted left, sometimes (but not always) it went up a bit, sometimes part of it (apparently) didn't include the belt-high heart of the plate.

    Bronson was getting an amazing amount of break and late life on his pitches, and if he'd had a consistent zone to throw into, I'm convinced he would have baffled the batters to the tune of 10+ strikeouts. Instead, he was a little wild and so was Jim Reynolds. The result was…well, you saw it.
    Makes all the routine posts.

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    Member blumj's Avatar
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    Re: Arroyo's Outing

    I didn't see the game, but Bronson used to have a game like that every 6-8 weeks or so when he was with Boston, and they were a lot more careful with his innings and pitch counts, so it might not be related.

    Sometimes it takes a little luck for a pitcher to work his way through a rough start, and if he doesn't get that luck, it just doesn't happen.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

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    Re: Arroyo's Outing

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    62 pitches, 30 strikes. Perhaps the 126 pitch San Diego start took a lot out of him. he looked unsure of his fastball and he couldn't place his breaking ball.

    Moments like that and you ponder Narron and the previous workload he was encumbered with this past week. On the other hand Narron yanked him quick enough to not incur greater damage on his arm or the scoreboard.

    And yet his 2 inning start is something to think about when he takes the mound next, fatigue? Or something else?

    Also note that the comeback has pushed that outing off the pages of the local paper.
    Had the Reds won that game in San Diego the 126 pitch count wouldn't have been a subject.
    "Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser."

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    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
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    Re: Arroyo's Outing

    Quote Originally Posted by vic715 View Post
    Had the Reds won that game in San Diego the 126 pitch count wouldn't have been a subject.
    I think it still would have been. Narron's abuse of Arroyo and Harang has been a topic since last season.

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    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Arroyo's Outing

    vic715...respectfully disagree. The second Arroyo came back out for the 9th, it became a subject.

  12. #11
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Arroyo's Outing

    Quote Originally Posted by vic715 View Post
    Had the Reds won that game in San Diego the 126 pitch count wouldn't have been a subject.
    It would if he could only go 2 innings his next outing.

    That said I don't think pitch counts apply equally to every pitcher, as Livan Hernandez has shown over the years. It's when the next outing is short or ineffective that I start to ponder the extent of that previous games PC. Now if he comes out and has no problem next time, it's all water under the bridge for me.

  13. #12
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Arroyo's Outing

    How does a starting pitcher with over 100 pitches get the chance to load the bases and then walk in the winning run in the 9th inning? As soon as he got in trouble in the 9th he should have been out of there. I really want to know what Narron was thinking.

    Just remember how Mark Prior insisted he felt just fine after pitching 120+ pitches routinely. Do we honestly think a pitcher is going to say "I didn't have a very good feel for my stuff today because my manager abused me last time out..."?
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: Arroyo's Outing

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I really want to know what Narron was thinking.
    Perhaps he looked to his bullpen and didn't much like his chances against those odds.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

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    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Arroyo's Outing

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I really want to know what Narron was thinking.
    He was thinking even a crumbling Arroyo north of 120 pitches was better then the bullpen he is carrying.

    I wonder if Narron is at the point where he's going to try and win every game and not worry about the next because he's not sure he'll be the manager then.
    Go Gators!

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    Re: Arroyo's Outing

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    He was thinking even a crumbling Arroyo north of 120 pitches was better then the bullpen he is carrying.

    I wonder if Narron is at the point where he's going to try and win every game and not worry about the next because he's not sure he'll be the manager then.
    The ironic part is that the bullpen has had some decent outings since then.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.


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