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Thread: Castellini maintains status quo...

  1. #1
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Castellini maintains status quo...


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  3. #2
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Castellini maintains status quo...

    If I owned a burro, I would invite Cast to buss it...

  4. #3
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: Castellini maintains status quo...

    I hope that's truly how he feels and not just lip service to keep his people from getting even shakier at the helm. I don't want the Reds to make another stopgap change like hiring Narron. Those kinds of changes have too often proven to be the permanent fix.
    /r/reds

  5. #4
    Haunted by walks
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    Re: Castellini maintains status quo...

    I think it would have been best if Castellini had said, "Nobody's happy with where we are and we'll change whatever we have to to fix it." Then make smart moves at the right time, not desperation in-season moves.

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    Member Marc D's Avatar
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    Re: Castellini maintains status quo...

    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    I think it would have been best if Castellini had said, "Nobody's happy with where we are and we'll change whatever we have to to fix it." Then make smart moves at the right time, not desperation in-season moves.
    Yep.

    The unequivical support line could easily lead to BC seeing changes as admitting an error, making BC equate changes to losing face.

    We need that like Custer needed more Indians.

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    Re: Castellini maintains status quo...

    i just threw up in my mouth

    I want a manager with some life in him. This needs a good kick in the can

  8. #7
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: Castellini maintains status quo...

    From the article-

    "I know we've played as poorly as we can play," Narron said. "We're capable of playing better. But our margin of error is not very great. If we make any kind of mistake, we get beat. We've got to play better all-around baseball."
    Um...Jerry? If your team can't overcome any mistake, then it's a poorly constructed unit. Just a tip.
    Last edited by SteelSD; 05-27-2007 at 02:00 AM.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

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  9. #8
    Resident optimist OldRightHander's Avatar
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    Re: Castellini maintains status quo...

    When I saw the title of this article in the paper today, my first thought before even reading the article was, "That's exactly what's been wrong with this team the last few years."

  10. #9
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Castellini maintains status quo...

    I don't think much of Jerry Narron as a manager. I don't think he's the sole reason this team is the worst team in baseball but he's a contributing factor. I think Wayne is the main culprit here but I think he has been operating under the delusion that with a few tweaks this team could make the post season. He wants to win and wants to win right away. He also wants to build up the farm system so the Reds can plug in cheap replacements when the current talent gets too expensive. That is the Twins Way. Say what you want about Wayne but he has not let prime young talent go to go for the brass ring. He has not made a John Smoltz for Doyle Alexander trade. But I think Bob made so much noise - and perhaps put so much pressure on Wayne to win now - that Wayne tried to plug the holes with cheap vets - as Steel was alluding to in another thread. That obviously has not only backfired but blown up in Wayne's face. Narron is the one who is going to eventually pay the price. But, as long as Wayne does the same thing in condstructing the team, there isn't a manager out there who is going to win. Maybe he'll squeeze a few more wins out of this team by a different lineup construction and better bullpen usage but the players have to play well in order to win and most of them haven't. Tonight's (Saturday's) game wasn't lost in the 1st inning. It wasn't lost in L.A. and S.D. when Bronson had to throw about 250 pitches in those games. It was lost in the offseason when Wayne put together this bullpen. If you had a decent bullpen, Narron wouldn't have had to make his starters go as deep as they have which arguably may have led to some sub par outings.

    I don't wnt Narron fired just to have his replacement come in, get a few wins and get hired for next year then get an extention and then stink up the joint. There isn't a manager out there that is going to turn Adam Dunn into a .300 hitter without sacrificing any power and making him into a Gold Glove OFer. No manager isn't going to make Jr. the player he was in the mid-90s. There isn't a manager out there that can make Mike Stanton an effective pitcher or keep Belisle, Coutlangus, Burton and Salmon from making rookie mistakes. It's highly unlikely any manager is going to get David Ross' swing from the first half of 06 back for good or make Javy Valentin an effective defensive catcher. He's not going to turn Alex Gonzalez and Juan Castro into offensive forces. So, you either have to re-tool this team to fit Narron's - or another manager's - style or you are going to have to find a manager that can best take advantage of this personnel.
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  11. #10
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Castellini maintains status quo...

    Killer post Chip.

    I agree with pretty much all you're saying.

    Regarding Narron, I resisted blaming him for a long time, for exactly the reasons you cite above.

    It's not his fault, for the most part. But is he the man who can turn this around, to any degree?

    I haven't seen anything that makes me think so.

    You never know how a player will handle adversity until he's faced with it. That's when you find out about their emotional maturity and inner srength.

    Maybe it's the same thing with a manager. We didn't know how Narron would handle a losing streak like this until we got a chance to observe. Of course, we don't know what's going on behind closed doors. Maybe he's telling them they have to stop trying so hard and relax and play loose. If so, that seems to have worked. They look relaxed, kind of like a coma victim. That doesn't appear to be effective, eh?

    On the surface we want to see anger and kicking of water coolers. It makes us think they are as upset as we are. Most professional athletes will tell you that it's mostly show and actually counterproductive to play with rage, though. A relaxed mind usually leads to better performance.

    It's a death spiral, and it's going to bring Narron down, regardless of whom is at fault. The players know it. They seem to like him, and I'll bet the guilt of knowing their performance is going to cost him his job, and very likely his last shot to ever manage in the major leagues, well, that has to be heavy on their minds.

    Castellini must be pulling out his hair. From the feel good first half of last year, which led to contract extensions for Krivsky and Narron, to this. He's being tested, too.

    We all are. The entire Reds Nation is being tested, big time.

    It feels like one of those terrible dreams where you walk into class and they're giving a mid-term and you didn't know about it.

    I wish I could wake up.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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  12. #11
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Castellini maintains status quo...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    I don't think much of Jerry Narron as a manager. I don't think he's the sole reason this team is the worst team in baseball but he's a contributing factor. I think Wayne is the main culprit here but I think he has been operating under the delusion that with a few tweaks this team could make the post season. He wants to win and wants to win right away. He also wants to build up the farm system so the Reds can plug in cheap replacements when the current talent gets too expensive. That is the Twins Way. Say what you want about Wayne but he has not let prime young talent go to go for the brass ring. He has not made a John Smoltz for Doyle Alexander trade. But I think Bob made so much noise - and perhaps put so much pressure on Wayne to win now - that Wayne tried to plug the holes with cheap vets - as Steel was alluding to in another thread. That obviously has not only backfired but blown up in Wayne's face. Narron is the one who is going to eventually pay the price. But, as long as Wayne does the same thing in condstructing the team, there isn't a manager out there who is going to win. Maybe he'll squeeze a few more wins out of this team by a different lineup construction and better bullpen usage but the players have to play well in order to win and most of them haven't. Tonight's (Saturday's) game wasn't lost in the 1st inning. It wasn't lost in L.A. and S.D. when Bronson had to throw about 250 pitches in those games. It was lost in the offseason when Wayne put together this bullpen. If you had a decent bullpen, Narron wouldn't have had to make his starters go as deep as they have which arguably may have led to some sub par outings.

    I don't wnt Narron fired just to have his replacement come in, get a few wins and get hired for next year then get an extention and then stink up the joint. There isn't a manager out there that is going to turn Adam Dunn into a .300 hitter without sacrificing any power and making him into a Gold Glove OFer. No manager isn't going to make Jr. the player he was in the mid-90s. There isn't a manager out there that can make Mike Stanton an effective pitcher or keep Belisle, Coutlangus, Burton and Salmon from making rookie mistakes. It's highly unlikely any manager is going to get David Ross' swing from the first half of 06 back for good or make Javy Valentin an effective defensive catcher. He's not going to turn Alex Gonzalez and Juan Castro into offensive forces. So, you either have to re-tool this team to fit Narron's - or another manager's - style or you are going to have to find a manager that can best take advantage of this personnel.
    Well said.

    Firing Narron is just rearranging deck chairs.

  13. #12
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Castellini maintains status quo...

    Chip,

    That's one of the best posts I've read in a while. Very well said.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  14. #13
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Castellini maintains status quo...

    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    I think it would have been best if Castellini had said, "Nobody's happy with where we are and we'll change whatever we have to to fix it." Then make smart moves at the right time, not desperation in-season moves.
    I don't care if he doesn't say it publically, just to appease the fans, as long as he believes and is working towards doing something about at some point this season.

    I do agree with his statement.....

    "We're much better than we've played," Castellini said. "But the results sure don't show it, do they?"


    I think they are better then what we've seen. When I look at their offensive numbers in comparison with the rest of the NL, they are above league average, and in the top 5-6 in alot.

    But their pitching and defense (runs allowed) is another story.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  15. #14
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    Re: Castellini maintains status quo...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    I don't think much of Jerry Narron as a manager. I don't think he's the sole reason this team is the worst team in baseball but he's a contributing factor. I think Wayne is the main culprit here but I think he has been operating under the delusion that with a few tweaks this team could make the post season. He wants to win and wants to win right away. He also wants to build up the farm system so the Reds can plug in cheap replacements when the current talent gets too expensive. That is the Twins Way. Say what you want about Wayne but he has not let prime young talent go to go for the brass ring. He has not made a John Smoltz for Doyle Alexander trade. But I think Bob made so much noise - and perhaps put so much pressure on Wayne to win now - that Wayne tried to plug the holes with cheap vets - as Steel was alluding to in another thread. That obviously has not only backfired but blown up in Wayne's face. Narron is the one who is going to eventually pay the price. But, as long as Wayne does the same thing in condstructing the team, there isn't a manager out there who is going to win. Maybe he'll squeeze a few more wins out of this team by a different lineup construction and better bullpen usage but the players have to play well in order to win and most of them haven't. Tonight's (Saturday's) game wasn't lost in the 1st inning. It wasn't lost in L.A. and S.D. when Bronson had to throw about 250 pitches in those games. It was lost in the offseason when Wayne put together this bullpen. If you had a decent bullpen, Narron wouldn't have had to make his starters go as deep as they have which arguably may have led to some sub par outings.

    I don't wnt Narron fired just to have his replacement come in, get a few wins and get hired for next year then get an extention and then stink up the joint. There isn't a manager out there that is going to turn Adam Dunn into a .300 hitter without sacrificing any power and making him into a Gold Glove OFer. No manager isn't going to make Jr. the player he was in the mid-90s. There isn't a manager out there that can make Mike Stanton an effective pitcher or keep Belisle, Coutlangus, Burton and Salmon from making rookie mistakes. It's highly unlikely any manager is going to get David Ross' swing from the first half of 06 back for good or make Javy Valentin an effective defensive catcher. He's not going to turn Alex Gonzalez and Juan Castro into offensive forces. So, you either have to re-tool this team to fit Narron's - or another manager's - style or you are going to have to find a manager that can best take advantage of this personnel.
    Love the post Chip.

    That said it is time to move Dunn and Griffey and try to get younger and cheaper. The second half of the season I would like to see the likes of Votto and Bailey on the club.

    If I was GM, I would deal Griffey to the Mets for Milledge and pitcher Joe Smith. Send Dunn to the Dodgers for LaRoche and Broxton. Shift Encarncion to LF and replace him with LaRoche at third base.

    Let's get younger and cheaper and quit pretending we can win with this roster.
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

  16. #15
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Castellini maintains status quo...

    I believe since Cast's "Narron's a winner" quote to Wheeler the Reds have gone 2-7.

    Sometimes life just has to make you chuckle. Or else you cry.


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