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Thread: Just another frustrated Reds fan...

  1. #1
    Member Strikes Out Looking's Avatar
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    Just another frustrated Reds fan...

    I've been a Reds fan since 1970, when I was six years old. This current team, including management is losing me fast and if things don't change I may just drop my interest in the team. If I want to root for a bad team, I have one right here in D.C., and that bad team at least looks like it is trying.

    Here are some of my problems with the current Reds (there isn't enough bandwith to go through everything):

    1. Ownership--I like BobCast personnally (I've actually met him), but his talk and his actions are not consistent. He claims to be inpatient, but the Reds are dead last in baseball at Memorial day and he is standing by his GM/manager.

    2. GM--I'm sure Krivsky has a plan, but his failure to see the picture from the fans perspective makes me nuts. What do I mean? Most fans under the age of 50 are used to having a team that can compete. From 1970 to 1981 the Reds were in a pennant race almost every year. After a few lean years (in which fans could see the team getting better yearly) the Reds were again competitive and won it all in 1990. From 1990 to 2000, the Reds were never down for more than a year or two and were usually competitive. However, its been many years since the Reds have finished above .500--the fans are restless, we aren't Cubs fans after all. We see the Cardinals get titles and accolades as the greatest baseball town. We see others pass this great franchise by. And then we see the GM say he has all the faith in the world in the manager, and he implys that the fans are nuts to think there is anything wrong with the manager (and the coaches). We know better, we've seen better and we don't want a 5 year rebuilding, we want to be in a pennant race, and I think Mr. Krivsky doesn't understand that sentiment.

    3. Manager. I could go on and on about him. I know you can't blame the manager for players baserunning errors and strikeouts and throwing grand slam pitches down the middle of the plate. But someone is the leader of the team. Night after night, someone makes a mistake. Someone is pitching that most of us on RZ know shouldn't be out there for one reason or another (sick, overworked, bad matchup). I know managing 25 millionaires or soon to be millionaires isn't easy, but other teams find managers that can do it, why can't the Reds?

    4. The Players. Oh, they say the right thing most of the time. But these guys aren't supposed to be playing like the 1962 Mets, yet they do not play fundementally sound baseball. Almost every player on this team seems to be coasting this season. Maybe they are too tense--if they are, someone on the team needs to do something to relieve the tension otherwise things will get worse before they get better.

    I don't know what the answers are but I can tell you that this team, at almost the 1/3 point of the season is a total failure.

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  3. #2
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    Re: The Current Reds are Losing Me Fast

    The Reds drop in competitiveness over the years has a positive correlation with the rise in MLB payroll per team.

    Do you think the Yankees, Red Sox, etc are pinning their hopes and dreams on the farm system to save them from mediocrity? Nope. Whether it actually works out for them is another thing, but when the Yankees see a need, they go out and buy it. When the Reds see a need, they patiently wait for their prospect to develop.

    Wake me up when we have an owner willing to open up the purse strings. Otherwise, its like watching the Varsity scrimmage the Reserves. And no the Reds are "Varsity" in this analogy.
    L.A. manager Grady Little had a bad feeling about Wednesday's game when he saw Harang and pitching coach Dick Pole walking in after Harang's warmup.

    "I saw two big men," Little said. "Either could have shut us out tonight."

  4. #3
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: The Current Reds are Losing Me Fast

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludwig Reds Fan View Post
    The Reds drop in competitiveness over the years has a positive correlation with the rise in MLB payroll per team.

    Do you think the Yankees, Red Sox, etc are pinning their hopes and dreams on the farm system to save them from mediocrity? Nope. Whether it actually works out for them is another thing, but when the Yankees see a need, they go out and buy it. When the Reds see a need, they patiently wait for their prospect to develop.

    Wake me up when we have an owner willing to open up the purse strings. Otherwise, its like watching the Varsity scrimmage the Reserves. And no the Reds are "Varsity" in this analogy.
    Absolutely agreed. The payroll disparity is a huge factor in determining which teams are competitive. This doesn't mean that how you spend your money isn't important. It just means that the Yankees can recover from the Carl Pavanos and Jaret Wrights (both signed in one off season!) while the Reds have to suffer with Eric Milton--and can't afford anything else while they have him!
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  5. #4
    Member durl's Avatar
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    Re: The Current Reds are Losing Me Fast

    I'm disappointed as well. I thought this team would be competitive, not the worst team by Memorial Day.

    1 - Castellini took over a franchise that was poorly run for several years. It's going to take some time to rebuild.

    2 - I believe we have to give Krivsky time to rebuild this team. It's evident that they can't throw down $125 million right away and get into the playoffs, not in this market. Krivsky only has one full off-season and a little more than one full regular season under his belt.

    3 - Honestly, I'm not sure what to think here. I'm not a Narron basher. Still, as one writer put it, it's not Narron's fault but it's his responsibility. I wonder if a change of philosophy will shake this team out of their spiral to the bottom.

    Ludwig makes a good point about payroll. Teams in huge markets are able to throw tons of money around to buy what they need. Unfortunately, Cincinnati is not one of the top 5 media markets that will be able to provide $100+ million each year from TV rights to buy those needs.

    Honestly, I could understand Castellini ordering a fire sale next week. He's spending over $60 million for the worst team in the NL and he could get the same results for $25 million.

    Man, I hate to feel this negative. I sit here hoping for the Reds to win 2 in a row and realize how....well...pathetic...it is that 2 wins would make me happy.

  6. #5
    Bread Gloves Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Re: The Current Reds are Losing Me Fast

    Quote Originally Posted by Strikes Out Looking View Post
    I've been a Reds fan since 1970, when I was six years old. This current team, including management is losing me fast and if things don't change I may just drop my interest in the team. If I want to root for a bad team, I have one right here in D.C., and that bad team at least looks like it is trying.
    At some level I almost wish that I could feel that way, but actually I don't, I like being interested in baseball. I love baseball and I especially love Reds baseball. I know that no matter what they do or how bad they are I'm still going to watch as many games as possible, every year. And even as bad as this season has gone so far, I still find myself excited for every single game (just like always). Maybe it's because I'm kind of an optimistic person, but I literally cannot wait until tonight's game starts and I LOATHE off days. I'll continue to be excited for Reds games no matter what, they could run Castro, Moeller and Stanton out there 6 days a week and I'd still be sitting there watching every inning of every game.

    Maybe that's sad to some of you, but in all honesty that's the way I feel and I have since I can remember.

    Baseball is a game, a great game, but a game none the less. Games are about enjoyment, and I enjoy watching the Reds play even when they suck. Don't get me wrong I get mad when they lose, but even losing has never been bad enough for me to say "I really didn't enjoy that game, I wish I hadn't watched it."

    So I'll be counting down the hours and minutes until tonight's game, just like always.

  7. #6
    Member Strikes Out Looking's Avatar
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    Re: The Current Reds are Losing Me Fast

    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Shines View Post
    At some level I almost wish that I could feel that way, but actually I don't, I like being interested in baseball. I love baseball and I especially love Reds baseball. I know that no matter what they do or how bad they are I'm still going to watch as many games as possible, every year. And even as bad as this season has gone so far, I still find myself excited for every single game (just like always). Maybe it's because I'm kind of an optimistic person, but I literally cannot wait until tonight's game starts and I LOATHE off days. I'll continue to be excited for Reds games no matter what, they could run Castro, Moeller and Stanton out there 6 days a week and I'd still be sitting there watching every inning of every game.

    Maybe that's sad to some of you, but in all honesty that's the way I feel and I have since I can remember.

    Baseball is a game, a great game, but a game none the less. Games are about enjoyment, and I enjoy watching the Reds play even when they suck. Don't get me wrong I get mad when they lose, but even losing has never been bad enough for me to say "I really didn't enjoy that game, I wish I hadn't watched it."

    So I'll be counting down the hours and minutes until tonight's game, just like always.
    My problem isn't with the fact that they stink, its with my impression that many in the organization seem to just accept it as a way of life.

  8. #7
    Bread Gloves Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Re: The Current Reds are Losing Me Fast

    Quote Originally Posted by Strikes Out Looking View Post
    My problem isn't with the fact that they stink, its with my impression that many in the organization seem to just accept it as a way of life.
    Yeah I don't like it either, but unfortunately (or fortunately) for me it's not going to make me stop enjoying their product.

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    Re: The Current Reds are Losing Me Fast

    Quote Originally Posted by Strikes Out Looking View Post
    My problem isn't with the fact that they stink, its with my impression that many in the organization seem to just accept it as a way of life.
    My thoughts exactly SOL. Its like "Well we've lost for so long, whats another year mean??"
    "For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled."
    -Hunter S. Thompson

  10. #9
    Member DannyB's Avatar
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    Re: The Current Reds are Losing Me Fast

    Quote Originally Posted by Strikes Out Looking View Post
    I've been a Reds fan since 1970, when I was six years old. This current team, including management is losing me fast and if things don't change I may just drop my interest in the team. If I want to root for a bad team, I have one right here in D.C., and that bad team at least looks like it is trying.

    Here are some of my problems with the current Reds (there isn't enough bandwith to go through everything):

    1. Ownership--I like BobCast personnally (I've actually met him), but his talk and his actions are not consistent. He claims to be inpatient, but the Reds are dead last in baseball at Memorial day and he is standing by his GM/manager.

    2. GM--I'm sure Krivsky has a plan, but his failure to see the picture from the fans perspective makes me nuts. What do I mean? Most fans under the age of 50 are used to having a team that can compete. From 1970 to 1981 the Reds were in a pennant race almost every year. After a few lean years (in which fans could see the team getting better yearly) the Reds were again competitive and won it all in 1990. From 1990 to 2000, the Reds were never down for more than a year or two and were usually competitive. However, its been many years since the Reds have finished above .500--the fans are restless, we aren't Cubs fans after all. We see the Cardinals get titles and accolades as the greatest baseball town. We see others pass this great franchise by. And then we see the GM say he has all the faith in the world in the manager, and he implys that the fans are nuts to think there is anything wrong with the manager (and the coaches). We know better, we've seen better and we don't want a 5 year rebuilding, we want to be in a pennant race, and I think Mr. Krivsky doesn't understand that sentiment.

    3. Manager. I could go on and on about him. I know you can't blame the manager for players baserunning errors and strikeouts and throwing grand slam pitches down the middle of the plate. But someone is the leader of the team. Night after night, someone makes a mistake. Someone is pitching that most of us on RZ know shouldn't be out there for one reason or another (sick, overworked, bad matchup). I know managing 25 millionaires or soon to be millionaires isn't easy, but other teams find managers that can do it, why can't the Reds?

    4. The Players. Oh, they say the right thing most of the time. But these guys aren't supposed to be playing like the 1962 Mets, yet they do not play fundementally sound baseball. Almost every player on this team seems to be coasting this season. Maybe they are too tense--if they are, someone on the team needs to do something to relieve the tension otherwise things will get worse before they get better.

    I don't know what the answers are but I can tell you that this team, at almost the 1/3 point of the season is a total failure.
    I agree....But theres always next year

  11. #10
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    Re: The Current Reds are Losing Me Fast

    It's been easier for the first time since the latest strike to not be a baseball fan this year. As a dying Reds fan living in Colorado, it's about as bad as it gets. Between watching the Rockies lose to the Royals and this horrid thing called the 2007 Reds team, it's as bad as it gets.

    Something has to be done....something...anything to bring some life to this team. It might be time to try the Marlins approach...dump everything for prospects, stick with them for a few years until you have a really good year---make a long run in October, sell the pieces and try again. Considering they've got two rings and 1990 seems like a lifetime ago, you've got to do something.

    It can't get any worse. I'd be more excited about this team if they simply said, "OK, we're gonna absolutely suck until 2010, but we're committed to having a playoff quality team then. It's gonna be brutal, but we're making a promise and commitment not to try and piece slop together and think we're going to play .500 ball this year and make a run for the NL Central. We are going to be bad...we realize that, but we are committed to rebuilding the "horrid from the days of Marge" farm system and get young and better. We're going to lose Dunn and Jr, and maybe even the two arms we signed this past off season, but we will have a quality team in 2010.

    "Please hang in here with us. We'll be honest and upfront with you as fans, and please come out for bobblehead and other events. We realize that even begging you to come last year during the "playoff run" didn't work, in spite of half price tickets and food. We have made mistakes and want to move forward after 5+ years of Indianapolis Indians quality baseball here. True baseball fans, we hear you and are committed to 2010. Fans who come to Pretty Good American Ballpark for entertainment, we'll still have an entertaining family product, and an immediate 20% reduction in ticket prices is our commitment to Tri-State families that we're here for you as well.

    "Quite honestly, the season after we have an above .500 quality product on the field, we are going to raise ticket prices. Until then, we realize that 20,000 people in the stands at a reduced price is the best we can offer you and the most that we can expect of you.

    "Thanks for continuing to support the Reds during this difficult time of transition. Your involvement now will allow us to provide the quality team you and Cincinnati deserve."

    The Powers that Be


    Is this too honest to work? Thoughts?

  12. #11
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    Re: The Current Reds are Losing Me Fast

    Quote Originally Posted by Strikes Out Looking View Post
    I've been a Reds fan since 1970, when I was six years old. This current team, including management is losing me fast and if things don't change I may just drop my interest in the team. If I want to root for a bad team, I have one right here in D.C., and that bad team at least looks like it is trying.

    Here are some of my problems with the current Reds (there isn't enough bandwith to go through everything):

    1. Ownership--I like BobCast personnally (I've actually met him), but his talk and his actions are not consistent. He claims to be inpatient, but the Reds are dead last in baseball at Memorial day and he is standing by his GM/manager.

    2. GM--I'm sure Krivsky has a plan, but his failure to see the picture from the fans perspective makes me nuts. What do I mean? Most fans under the age of 50 are used to having a team that can compete. From 1970 to 1981 the Reds were in a pennant race almost every year. After a few lean years (in which fans could see the team getting better yearly) the Reds were again competitive and won it all in 1990. From 1990 to 2000, the Reds were never down for more than a year or two and were usually competitive. However, its been many years since the Reds have finished above .500--the fans are restless, we aren't Cubs fans after all. We see the Cardinals get titles and accolades as the greatest baseball town. We see others pass this great franchise by. And then we see the GM say he has all the faith in the world in the manager, and he implys that the fans are nuts to think there is anything wrong with the manager (and the coaches). We know better, we've seen better and we don't want a 5 year rebuilding, we want to be in a pennant race, and I think Mr. Krivsky doesn't understand that sentiment.

    3. Manager. I could go on and on about him. I know you can't blame the manager for players baserunning errors and strikeouts and throwing grand slam pitches down the middle of the plate. But someone is the leader of the team. Night after night, someone makes a mistake. Someone is pitching that most of us on RZ know shouldn't be out there for one reason or another (sick, overworked, bad matchup). I know managing 25 millionaires or soon to be millionaires isn't easy, but other teams find managers that can do it, why can't the Reds?

    4. The Players. Oh, they say the right thing most of the time. But these guys aren't supposed to be playing like the 1962 Mets, yet they do not play fundementally sound baseball. Almost every player on this team seems to be coasting this season. Maybe they are too tense--if they are, someone on the team needs to do something to relieve the tension otherwise things will get worse before they get better.

    I don't know what the answers are but I can tell you that this team, at almost the 1/3 point of the season is a total failure.
    But you still like the peanut vendors, right?

  13. #12
    Reds fan for life!!!! WVPacman's Avatar
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    Re: The Current Reds are Losing Me Fast

    Win or lose or having I will always be interested in the reds.Hey I even tivoed the game tonight b/c I was gone.


    NEVER GIVE UP!!!!!NEVER GIVE UP!!!!!
    I can spell,I just can't type!!

  14. #13
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    Re: The Current Reds are Losing Me Fast

    Quote Originally Posted by WVPacman View Post
    Win or lose or having I will always be interested in the reds.Hey I even tivoed the game tonight b/c I was gone.


    NEVER GIVE UP!!!!!NEVER GIVE UP!!!!!
    Interested in the Reds and following them fanatically are two different things. I tried to stay away last night, I listened to some of the game on xm after my son's little league game--it was still 2-2, I check with espn after 10 and couldn't believe what happened. I actually watched some of the Nats-Cards game locally as well.

    These guys are just killing many of us. They've been playing since they were kids, they know where to throw the ball and that homeruns are not the only way to score runs.

  15. #14
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    Re: The Current Reds are Losing Me Fast

    I am quickly losing interest. I hate the way this organization has been ran since 2000 up. We had decent teams that had something special back then IMHO, but we would ship everyone away after the all-star break. Or even worse how about the year we traded away Reitsma in the begining and ended up needing just that kind of player. Everyone was holding their breath for GABP to be built, and looking foward to a winning team and a great new ballpark. However, the team kept losing and the park doesn't live up to some of the other new parks. Then came last year. We are in a playoff race! But everyone knew it wasnt real. The Reds last year never won the games they had to win. They just didnt have "it". The front office makes a very interesting trade to say the least. The farm system has been pathetic for a long time. Only now do a few of the prospects hold my interest. I really had optimism this year. I thought the bullpen was going to be decent (I still have some false hope about that). I thought Dunn would be a improved all around hitter after the spring. But this team (much like last years) finds a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and show very little emotion about it. Its painful to watch a team with what I thought was pretty talent lose like they do.

    But I guess Im an eternal optimist. The new ownership is better than before. The park is better than before. I have hope in Homer, Hamilton, and Philips. It would be great to able to really believe in the Reds again. I want that 99' feeling back. Hell I would even settle for some those early 2000s teams that hit walk off homers all the time but always struggled. At least they had heart and emotion.

  16. #15
    Hygiene Beyond Reproach ThatPitchIsDunn's Avatar
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    Just another frustrated Reds fan...

    But for whatever reason, I need to get it out. I know this is probably post/thread number infinity plus 8 about this topic, but consider this an open letter to Wayne Krivsky and Bob Castellini:

    Gentlemen, what on earth have you done to the team I love? I will never turn my back on them, as I adore the Reds and will live and die with every pitch. I may not be the most knowledgeable Reds fan out there, but I do have an advantage of working for a network that brings in every baseball feed known to man on a nightly basis, so I get to see my beloved Redlegs very frequently. I'd pondered for quite a while what it was that frustrated me so about watching them. While I despise the losing, I can accept if the talent wasn't there (which admittedly is part of the problem) or if a dynamite pitcher is on. I can accept losing to Roy Oswalt or Brandon Webb. That happens sometimes; no team goes 162-0.

    There are flashes where there's a possibility of hope. When Griffey screams a hit through the shift or BP or AGon show off the leather, my spirits lift just a little. D'Angelo Jimenez doesn't make that play. Wily Mo wouldn't be able to swing so sweetly. Maybe...just MAYBE this team has what it takes; I mean, they won 80 games last year, didn't they?

    In past years, the pitching and defense stunk. We knew that if we were going to win; it would have to be a slugfest. 10-9 ballgames. Ok, chicks dig the longball, at least there will be fireworks at GABP. What has become so frustrating is the inconsistency of the root of the problem. Reds fans have no idea where the loss is coming from. The unknown can bring about a pessimism of "how will these guys blow it tonight?" but it also brings hope: "they're looking sharp out here; they might actually beat a pretty good team tonight" And 20% of the time (the other 15% of their winning percentage is teams they should have beaten in my opinion) they figure it out. It's pretty freakin hard to stay upbeat when the only time you don't beat yourself is basically 1 out of every 4 times you run out there.

    Gentlemen, I put this to you. You continue to employ a manager and staff who haven't exactly figured out this whole baseball thing. I don't blame Narron for all of it, as some of the "talent" you've given him to work with is ridiculous. Javier Valentin and Jeff Conine are our bench? Really? I hope they get a fastball they can uppercut. He's somewhat playing behind the 8 ball to start. It doesn't help that he routinely scratches on the 8 ball as well. Juan Castro and Chad Moeller should not pinch hit. Mike Stanton's ERA is approaching his weight. I now hold my breath at the beginning of GAMES, not pivotal innings. I just don't trust the man whom you seem to favor.

    In spite of my frustration, I can attempt to be a realist on this situation. Rome wasn't built in a day. But it also had clear plans on how it was built. It had hard workers that knew the vision and constructed the remarkable structures with that vision in mind. Not only have your decisions in obtaining players and sticking with questionable managing been confusing, your blind optimism of "we have a plan" is enough to make me scream. Be honest with the fans then. Tell us your plan. It's a novel concept.

    Now I know businesses are not a democracy, but you're in danger of alienating and losing a large fanbase of a proud proud baseball franchise. I will never stop cheering for this team, but I am quite offended at the way you're running things. Please, PLEASE change some things. Let the youngsters start to play. And show Mr. Narron the door; otherwise I respectfully would suggest you take it as well.

    Go Reds,

    TPID
    No one expects the butterfly


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