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Thread: The RedsZone guide to Homer v2.0.0.7 (released 5-27-07)

  1. #16
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    Re: The RedsZone guide to Homer v2.0.0.7 (released 5-27-07)

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    The Tim Lincecum I've seen throws a nasty 12-6 curveball.
    I see more 11-5(slider).

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  3. #17
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    Re: The RedsZone guide to Homer v2.0.0.7 (released 5-27-07)

    Quote Originally Posted by Aronchis View Post
    I see more 11-5(slider).
    I see a 12-6 curve as do the scouts.

    Comments: An undersized right-hander, turned down going pro as a draft-eligible sophomore and it's paid off. He's skyrocketed to the top of the first round thanks to a dominating junior season. The PAC-10 career leader in strikeouts, he has an unorthodox delivery, leading some to worry about durability. He's got a plus fastball and plus, plus curve, leading some to compare him to Roy Oswalt. If put in the pen, he could help a big league club out this season.

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    Re: The RedsZone guide to Homer v2.0.0.7 (released 5-27-07)

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    I see a 12-6 curve as do the scouts.

    Comments: An undersized right-hander, turned down going pro as a draft-eligible sophomore and it's paid off. He's skyrocketed to the top of the first round thanks to a dominating junior season. The PAC-10 career leader in strikeouts, he has an unorthodox delivery, leading some to worry about durability. He's got a plus fastball and plus, plus curve, leading some to compare him to Roy Oswalt. If put in the pen, he could help a big league club out this season.
    Uh, you do know the curve IS a slider?

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    Re: The RedsZone guide to Homer v2.0.0.7 (released 5-27-07)

    Quote Originally Posted by Aronchis View Post
    Uh, you do know the curve IS a slider?
    Uh, you do know there is a difference in a curve and slider?

    Tim Lincecum throws a curveball.

  6. #20
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    Re: The RedsZone guide to Homer v2.0.0.7 (released 5-27-07)

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    Uh, you do know there is a difference in a curve and slider?

    Tim Lincecum throws a curveball.
    Yes, he throws a curveball but the slider is a curve as well. Come on OBM, you should know that. 12-6 is the "classic" curve. Arroyo throws 4 of them I think.

    If I got Lincecum's bread and butter mixed around, SORRY, but wow, I can't believe you didn't know the slider was considered a breaking pitch.

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    Re: The RedsZone guide to Homer v2.0.0.7 (released 5-27-07)

    Quote Originally Posted by Aronchis View Post
    Yes, he throws a curveball but the slider is a curve as well. Come on OBM, you should know that. 12-6 is the "classic" curve. Arroyo throws 4 of them I think.

    If I got Lincecum's bread and butter mixed around, SORRY, but wow, I can't believe you didn't know the slider was considered a breaking pitch.
    SORRY, but I did know the slider was a breaking pitch. I was shocked you didn't know there was a difference between the slider and curve. And you didn't get his pitches mixed around, you tried to state for a fact that Lincecum threw a slider. He doesn't. His fastball/curveball combo is considered one of the best in professional baseball.

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    Re: The RedsZone guide to Homer v2.0.0.7 (released 5-27-07)

    Quote Originally Posted by Aronchis View Post
    Yes, he throws a curveball but the slider is a curve as well. Come on OBM, you should know that. 12-6 is the "classic" curve. Arroyo throws 4 of them I think.
    A classic slider breaks more side-to-side breaks smaller and later and is thrown "harder" (only a few miles an hour less than a pitcher's fastball). think Randy Johnson
    A classic curve breaks downward and the break is earlier and bigger, and is noticeably slower than a pitcher's fastball. think Josh Beckett
    When a slider breaks sideways and down, or kind of diagonally, (like some of Arroyo's pitches, as you pointed out) it is kind of a hybrid pitch, and those are often called slurves (a half-slider, half-curve). Alternately, when a curve is thrown closer to fastball speed, and breaks late, it acts a lot like a slider (I don't know if I have heard a name for this pitch).
    I don't know if Tim Linecum throws a slider, but he has a great hard-breaking curveball. So does Homer Bailey.
    Last edited by Betterread; 05-28-2007 at 05:36 PM.

  9. #23
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    Re: The RedsZone guide to Homer v2.0.0.7 (released 5-27-07)

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    So here's the thing, all level-headed analysis aside, I want him in Cincy at some point coming off of the current Reds road trip. I think he's ready. Ready enough anyway. I want something fun to root for. I want some hope. Or some hope for hope.
    Ahhh, all you have to do is follow his starts with the Bats for some hope (he's going tonight)...

    It's free to listen too!

    http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/index.jsp?sid=t416
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: The RedsZone guide to Homer v2.0.0.7 (released 5-27-07)

    Quote Originally Posted by Betterread View Post
    A classic slider breaks more side-to-side breaks smaller and later and is thrown "harder" (only a few miles an hour less than a pitcher's fastball). think Randy Johnson
    A classic curve breaks downward and the break is earlier and bigger, and is noticeably slower than a pitcher's fastball. think Josh Beckett
    When a slider breaks sideways and down, or kind of diagonally, (like some of Arroyo's pitches, as you pointed out) it is kind of a hybrid pitch, and those are often called slurves (a half-slider, half-curve). Alternately, when a curve is thrown closer to fastball speed, and breaks late, it acts a lot like a slider (I don't know if I have heard a name for this pitch).
    I don't know if Tim Linecum throws a slider, but he has a great hard-breaking curveball. So does Homer Bailey.
    Right....I've always thought of the slider as a "fastball mirage"...the hitter reads "fat fastball" and gets a nasty surprise with its movement. It's a bit of an over generalization I know but....

    Anyway, great comment.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: The RedsZone guide to Homer v2.0.0.7 (released 5-27-07)

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Ahhh, all you have to do is follow his starts with the Bats for some hope (he's going tonight)...

    It's free to listen too!

    http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/index.jsp?sid=t416
    He's on fire again. Just like he got last year about this time. And, frankly, his first few months, all the panty-bunching aside, were dominant in terms of WHIP and ERA. Now he is adding the Ks as he has eased into the season (and, perhaps, they have begun to let him throw more heat). It's time. Coming off this next Reds road trip, I would love to see him debut.

  12. #26
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    Re: The RedsZone guide to Homer v2.0.0.7 (released 5-27-07)

    Just my .02, but I don't want to see Homer promoted until the Reds get a little better, for a couple reasons.

    1- I'd like him to be around winning a bit more. The Reds aren't doing that a lot lately and Homer is still young and impressionable.

    2- I don't want the Reds or Red's fans to believe Homer will save the season. There's a lot wrong with the Reds now. Bringing up Homer and putting the weight of the season on him is not how I think he should be handled.

  13. #27
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    Re: The RedsZone guide to Homer v2.0.0.7 (released 5-27-07)

    Quote Originally Posted by GoReds View Post
    Just my .02, but I don't want to see Homer promoted until the Reds get a little better, for a couple reasons.

    1- I'd like him to be around winning a bit more. The Reds aren't doing that a lot lately and Homer is still young and impressionable.

    2- I don't want the Reds or Red's fans to believe Homer will save the season. There's a lot wrong with the Reds now. Bringing up Homer and putting the weight of the season on him is not how I think he should be handled.
    Well, those are two reasons.

    The biggest reason, IMO, is that I just don't think he's ready. Yeah, he's pitching well in AAA, but that doesn't mean you go and promote your top prospect at 21 years old onto a major league team that is absolutely dismal right now. As others have said, he is struggling with the command of his secondary pitch, his curve. He needs improvement there. It'd also be nice to have him work more on his change up while in AAA. The Reds have time to let him do that. They don't need Homer this year. Promoting Homer this year does nothing but start his arbitration clock, which is a bad thing. The Reds are going to lose 65+ games this year with or without Homer. Leave him in AAA. Let him work more innings. Let him throw and get a better feel for his curveball and his changeup. That's what Homer Bailey should be doing this year, not throwing 90-100 pitches a game for the Reds.

    I want to see him up with the big league team as much as anybody. I just think that if you're asking for him to be promoted now you're being selfish and not thinking of the big picture. I'd rather be watching Homer Bailey start game 3 next year and then watch him pitch every 5th day for 10+ years than to watch him pitch and have good / bad outings and possibly injure himself this year for no reason at all.
    'When I'm not longer rapping, I want to open up an ice cream parlor and call myself Scoop Dogg.'
    -Snoop on his retirement

    Your Mom is happy.

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    Re: The RedsZone guide to Homer v2.0.0.7 (released 5-27-07)

    I'm sorry, if we're talking about a pitcher who has similar stats to the other AAA pitchers I could see the point but Bailey's numbers clearly stand out from the others. If you are one of your organizations 5 best starting pitchers then you deserve to be in the starting rotation.

    Why does everyone assume that he'll stop developing once he gets here? Don't the Reds have pitching coaches? Isn't it Dick Pole's job to work with the pitchers?

    Is he as good as he's going to be? No of course not. But he's one of the top 5 pitchers in the organization and should be with the big club.

  15. #29
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    Re: The RedsZone guide to Homer v2.0.0.7 (released 5-27-07)

    I completely disagree on the hide him in AAA stuff. I just do. His numbers are dominant. He's ready to get guys out in the majors now. It's not his fault the Reds blow chunks.

    But, given his talents, and that nothing is guaranteed with anyone's arm, I would like to not see him waste starts in AAA. Time to learn on the job. Why should he hurt himself if he's up? Do what he does, and get guys out. He's that good. If he runs into trouble, time to learn how to deal with it.

    By the way, every solid outing from Lincecum just drives home the point. The near no-hitter from Hughes? Another one in Bailey's favor.
    Last edited by membengal; 05-29-2007 at 01:33 PM.

  16. #30
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    Re: The RedsZone guide to Homer v2.0.0.7 (released 5-27-07)

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    I completely disagree on the hide him in AAA stuff. I just do. His numbers are dominant. He's ready to get guys out in the majors now. It's not his fault the Reds blow chunks.

    But, given his talents, and that nothing is guaranteed with anyone's arm, I would like to not see him waste starts in AAA. Time to learn on the job. Why should he hurt himself if he's up? Do what he does, and get guys out. He's that good. If he runs into trouble, time to learn how to deal with it.
    Telling a pitcher to learn on the job when both his peripherals and scouts suggest he doesn't have major league command of his secondary stuff yet is really wasting his arm. Right now Homer has two major league quality pitches with major league quality command of one of them. BTW, Homer isn't being hidden in Louisville. He's being taught how to pitch. Homer is one of the most valuable commidities in the Reds organisation. As such he should get treated differently and have a different function than other arms in the same level of the system...

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    By the way, every solid outing from Lincecum just drives home the point. The near no-hitter from Hughes? Another one in Bailey's favor.
    So if sweet corn is good, hominy must be also?
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner


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