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Thread: Narron's Influences

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    Member chicoruiz's Avatar
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    Narron's Influences

    Has anyone ever read or heard anything from Narron regarding what managers he was influenced by or tries to pattern himself after?

    Jerry came up in the Yankee organization during the years when Steinbrenner was shuffling things around pretty much weekly, so it's doubtful he was exposed to any one manager long enough to become imprinted. In the bigs he played for Bily Martin and the underrated Bob Lemon, and he shows no evidence of trying to emulate either one of them. Well, maybe a twist of Lemon.

    Besides those two, he played for two near-legends, Dick Williams and Gene Mauch, three journeymen, John MacNamara, Rene Lachman and Darrell Johnson, and one legendary grease fire, Maury Wills. Mauch was probably the one he was exposed to the most, and I can kind of see a bit of Mauch in him.

    But of course the best source for his influences would be Jerry himself. Does anyone ever remember hearing him comment on this?
    "In baseball, you don't know nothin'"...Yogi Berra

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Narron's Influences

    Has anyone ever read or heard anything from Narron regarding what managers he was influenced by or tries to pattern himself after?
    I see lot's of Gene Mauch in Jerry's lineups, he tries to play everyone on the bench, he has a strat-o-matic approach to the lefty/right equation to match ups (including moving the lineup around) he also values role players with gloves more then role players with bats. And he leans on his top hurlers more in hopes of correcting the discrepancies at the bottom of the roatation.

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    Haunted by walks
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    Re: Narron's Influences

    Actually sometime over the weekend Marty asked him that very question. Narron talked a lot about Gene Mauch and Dick Williams. He also mentioned something about Grady Little and how you can lose by leaving a pitcher in too long, and you can lose by taking him out too soon.

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    Member chicoruiz's Avatar
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    Re: Narron's Influences

    Well, that being the case, he joins another former Angel catcher who was a disciple of Mauch. Fella named Bob Boone...
    "In baseball, you don't know nothin'"...Yogi Berra

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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Narron's Influences

    Quote Originally Posted by chicoruiz View Post
    Well, that being the case, he joins another former Angel catcher who was a disciple of Mauch. Fella named Bob Boone...
    I've always heard that Mauch is considered one of the brightest managers, but one who never won the big one. His only post-season experience came late in his career with the Angels in 1982 and 1986. Of course, he came very close in 1964 in that wild finish year (I think we finished 3rd, but it could have gone anyway up until the final day). And look at his 1962 season - .503winning percentage and finished 7th! Wow!

    I'm sure there are some here who can say more about Mauch as a manager, as well as about Dick Williams.

    Mauch's record:

    Code:
    Managerial Record Glossary
    
     Year    League   Team     Age  G     W    L    WP   Finish
    +----+-----------+--------+---+-----+----+----+------+------+
     1960 National Lg Phildlpa  34   152   58   94   .382      8
     1961 National Lg Phildlpa  35   155   47  107   .305      8
     1962 National Lg Phildlpa  36   161   81   80   .503      7
     1963 National Lg Phildlpa  37   162   87   75   .537      4
     1964 National Lg Phildlpa  38   162   92   70   .568      2
     1965 National Lg Phildlpa  39   162   85   76   .528      6
     1966 National Lg Phildlpa  40   162   87   75   .537      4
     1967 National Lg Phildlpa  41   162   82   80   .506      5
     1968 National Lg Phildlpa  42    54   27   27   .500      7
    
     1969 NL East     Montreal  43   162   52  110   .321      6
     1970 NL East     Montreal  44   162   73   89   .451      6
     1971 NL East     Montreal  45   162   71   90   .441      5
     1972 NL East     Montreal  46   156   70   86   .449      5
     1973 NL East     Montreal  47   162   79   83   .488      4
     1974 NL East     Montreal  48   161   79   82   .491      4
     1975 NL East     Montreal  49   162   75   87   .463      5
    
     1976 AL West     Minnesta  50   162   85   77   .525      3
     1977 AL West     Minnesta  51   161   84   77   .522      4
     1978 AL West     Minnesta  52   162   73   89   .451      4
     1979 AL West     Minnesta  53   162   82   80   .506      4
     1980 AL West     Minnesta  54   125   54   71   .432      3
    
     1981 AL West     Califrna  55    13    9    4   .692      4  First half of season
    
     1981 AL West     Califrna  55    50   20   30   .400      7  Second half of season
     1982 AL West     Califrna  56   162   93   69   .574      1
    
     1985 AL West     Califrna  59   162   90   72   .556      2
     1986 AL West     Califrna  60   162   92   70   .568      1
     1987 AL West     Califrna  61   162   75   87   .463      7
    +----+-----------+--------+---+-----+----+----+------+------+
                      Califrna       711  379  332   .533
                      Minnesta       772  378  394   .490
                      Phildlpa      1332  646  684   .486
                      Montreal      1127  499  627   .443
    +----+-----------+--------+---+-----+----+----+------+------+
          TOTAL                     3942 1902 2037   .483

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    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Narron's Influences

    Quote Originally Posted by chicoruiz View Post
    Well, that being the case, he joins another former Angel catcher who was a disciple of Mauch. Fella named Bob Boone...
    Neat, something else we can blame Boone for.
    Go Gators!

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    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Narron's Influences

    I could be wrong but I believe there were some very talented players on those teams managed by Mauch. He seemed to find ways not to succeed with the talent at his disposal. (JMHO)

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    Re: Narron's Influences

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Madden View Post
    I could be wrong but I believe there were some very talented players on those teams managed by Mauch. He seemed to find ways not to succeed with the talent at his disposal. (JMHO)
    Oh Lord. The 86 angels team was an out from the world series. They proceeded to lose that game AND the next two. The way that team fell apart was the cruelest thing I've ever seen in baseball. Those couple of days pretty much killed Donnie More.

    I wasn't a phan when the phillies phaded. I was 2, but that's the only team I can think of in recent years that suffered as cruelly as that Angels team.

    Mauch of course was there for both of those. Interesting to see that Mauch was a brother in law to Roy Smalley jr.(the old Philly player) and thus uncle to Roy Smalley III (the Twin/Yankee player and prototypical large shortstop)
    I didn't know that.

    Mauch was a huge matchup guy. You see any Narron game and that echo will come out.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

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    Re: Narron's Influences

    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    Actually sometime over the weekend Marty asked him that very question. Narron talked a lot about Gene Mauch and Dick Williams. He also mentioned something about Grady Little and how you can lose by leaving a pitcher in too long, and you can lose by taking him out too soon.
    Well he does have a point, it is important to keep a pitcher in just the right amount of time....
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Narron's Influences

    Mauch all the way.

    For all the reasons stated above.

    Mauch was a tragic figure, remembered by those historic losses.

    I loved the guy, personally. Smartest manager in the bigs, and everybody knew it.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

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    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Narron's Influences

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62 View Post
    Mauch all the way.

    For all the reasons stated above.

    Mauch was a tragic figure, remembered by those historic losses.

    I loved the guy, personally. Smartest manager in the bigs, and everybody knew it.
    I always thought he was a tough guy to play against, but he seemed to lose and lose. In my mind, he was a loser. Smart? Open to question. If you're that smart, how do you lose that many games and be consistent with it? Just asking.

    If Mauch is Narron's hero as was Bob Boone, the future is very dim. Of course, it was anyway, but this makes it dimmer.
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    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Narron's Influences

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    I always thought he was a tough guy to play against, but he seemed to lose and lose. In my mind, he was a loser. Smart? Open to question. If you're that smart, how do you lose that many games and be consistent with it? Just asking.

    If Mauch is Narron's hero as was Bob Boone, the future is very dim. Of course, it was anyway, but this makes it dimmer.


    Mauch managed in a different era, with a different style of play.

    I'd submit that if he were alive today, he'd embrace sabrmetrics and know more about it than anyone else.

    I have a hard time blaming the Angels collapse on Mauch.

    The Phils, yeah. His pitching selections in the last ten days were panic driven at best.

    Interesting that so many players who he managed speak so highly of him.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Narron's Influences

    Interesting that so many players who he managed speak so highly of him.
    When he was a 17 year old 2nd sacker in the Dodgers system Branch Rickey said that he had the baseball mind of a 37 year old player who had already sat through 20 seasons.

  15. #14
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Narron's Influences

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    If you're that smart, how do you lose that many games and be consistent with it? Just asking.
    Philadelphia going into the 60's was one the cheapest and least "fancy" of the clubs on the east coast. They played in a dingy park they inherited and they didn't sign black players in a league that was taking off because of that.


    Montreal - An Expansion team in the era that expansion teams were supposed to suck it up, and they did the first part really well, limited resorces and no farm system to build on.

    Minnesota - Calvin Griffith - Dinosaur and professional penny squeezer

    California - Never got the gold ring, but was on the carousal most of the time.

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    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Narron's Influences

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    I see lot's of Gene Mauch in Jerry's lineups, he tries to play everyone on the bench, he has a strat-o-matic approach to the lefty/right equation to match ups (including moving the lineup around) he also values role players with gloves more then role players with bats. And he leans on his top hurlers more in hopes of correcting the discrepancies at the bottom of the roatation.


    I think that's an excellent description of Mauch's style. Just about perfect.

    He despised players who didn't have their head in the game. He was famous for walking over to a player on the bench and quizzing him on the count, what was going on, pitch sequence, etc. You'd better know the answers, too, or there would be hell to pay.

    He hated the idea that a professional had to be motivated by anyone. You didn't loaf around Gene Mauch.

    Here's a pretty famous quote regarding his feelings about the bench players....


    "I want everybody to feel he has a chance to get into a game when he comes to the ballpark. I play guys when I want to so they'll be ready when I have to. I don't consider myself a motivator of players. I think it's an insult to a ballplayer to have to be motivated." - Gene Mauch
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain


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