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Thread: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

  1. #211
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    So teams make dumb decisions based on their what? experience? scouting? stats?

    Yes they do. You seem to want to defend this regime when it comes to their draft decisions, when it seems the previous regime (DanO) did as well if not better. The only saving grace for the 2006 draft is that four guys picked after Stubbs are playing so much better than him. Off the charts better in some cases (Valaika).

    I'm not ready to call Stubbs a bust, but he was a bad pick in the Gruler sense. There was a better option on the board, and it filled a position of need to boot.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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  3. #212
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    So teams make dumb decisions based on their what? experience? scouting? stats?

    Yes they do. You seem to want to defend this regime when it comes to their draft decisions, when it seems the previous regime (DanO) did as well if not better. The only saving grace for the 2006 draft is that four guys picked after Stubbs are playing so much better than him. Off the charts better in some cases (Valaika).

    I'm not ready to call Stubbs a bust, but he was a bad pick in the Gruler sense. There was a better option on the board, and it filled a position of need to boot.
    Teams make dumb decisions in hindsight. At the time, they didn't look like dumb decisions to the guys making them, or they obviously wouldn't have taken them. I think its just ridiculous that based off of Stubbs last 24 at bats he is playing poorly. Prior to those at bats he was hitting just fine. He is in a slump and its showing in his numbers. The Reds didn't draft a guy who was ready for the big leagues and they surely have the time to let him grow and learn as a player in the minor leagues. Sure we can all play the 'what if' game, but its just silly to do so before either has ever played in the majors and before either has even played a full season worth of baseball, much less the fact that both guys are about to play their first professional game in May.
    There also is no such thing as a 'position of need' in the minors. Every position is a position of need in the minor leagues because you have no clue whats going to happen tomorrow.

  4. #213
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    All a matter of opinion and 9 other teams disagreed with you. If the Giants get 5 years out of him, I will be surprised.

    I also get a pretty good kick out of the fact that you can say that he wont OPS over .800 in the Majors because he cant seem to do it in the minors. Grady Sizemore showed absolutely no power in the minor leagues. He topped out at 13 HR, does that suggest that he was never going to hit more than 13 HRs in the Majors?
    As for him being outhit....you know, nearly everyone on Louisvilles roster is outhitting Joey Votto right now. You know what Votto and Stubbs have in common right now? They are both in the middle of slumps. It is May 1st. A slump makes your look bad, just like a hot streak makes you look good.

    But since I love this 'lets go back and look at who we should have taken' game maybe I should start a topic about wanting CC Sabathia, Brian Roberts, Adam Wainwright, Jeremy Bonderman or David Wright, Cole Hamels, Chad Billingsley, Jared Weaver or Stephen Drew.

    Those guys are all doing fairly well for themselves arent there? Should I start up a topic about each of these guys on how well they are doing? Should I blast the guys that we took instead of those guys?
    I wish the Mods would close this topic, I really do.
    whatever. you don't like the discussion don't post. it's valid as long as the two players being discussed continue to play.

    In the first place, In the Redszone draft, I cyberdrafted Linecum with the first pick. I was on board with him from the beginning. Second, Stubbs was outhit by four guys for all of last year in the Pioneer league. A hitters league. He didn't OPS over .800 in rookie ball. It's been stated he had an injury last year. 2 years, 2 injuries.

    For every Sizemore you pull out, we can pull out 10 Juan Pierres. Or more. Sizemore is the exception certainly not the rule.

    Yeah, I would have preferred Weaver to Bailey. I said so at the time. But Bailey is at least at AAA on the cusp of the major leagues. At the rate Stubbs is hitting, he won't see Cincinnati in a Reds uni for years.

    And Sabathia isn't a good comp and you know it. He was a HS pitcher that happened to rise fast. He wasn't even the first HS pitcher taken in the draft, though he was the best.

    Linecum was graded as having 2 pitches that were the best in the draft. Stubbs has shown nothing to date that he was worthy of being drafted that high. Defend the pick all you want, but he is quickly turning into BJ Szymanski. But with stellar gold glove defense, I guess.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  5. #214
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    whatever. you don't like the discussion don't post. it's valid as long as the two players being discussed continue to play.

    In the first place, In the Redszone draft, I cyberdrafted Linecum with the first pick. I was on board with him from the beginning. Second, Stubbs was outhit by four guys for all of last year in the Pioneer league. A hitters league. He didn't OPS over .800 in rookie ball. It's been stated he had an injury last year. 2 years, 2 injuries.

    For every Sizemore you pull out, we can pull out 10 Juan Pierres. Or more. Sizemore is the exception certainly not the rule.

    Yeah, I would have preferred Weaver to Bailey. I said so at the time. But Bailey is at least at AAA on the cusp of the major leagues. At the rate Stubbs is hitting, he won't see Cincinnati in a Reds uni for years.

    And Sabathia isn't a good comp and you know it. He was a HS pitcher that happened to rise fast. He wasn't even the first HS pitcher taken in the draft, though he was the best.

    Linecum was graded as having 2 pitches that were the best in the draft. Stubbs has shown nothing to date that he was worthy of being drafted that high. Defend the pick all you want, but he is quickly turning into BJ Szymanski. But with stellar gold glove defense, I guess.
    Stubbs > Szymanski and its not really close. That is quite a bad comparison.

    As for Sabathia, I went with him because he was drafted after the Reds picked, just like everyone else I named.

    And what does it matter if we dont see Stubbs in a Reds uniform for years? What matters is how he performs when he puts one on, not how fast he puts one on.

  6. #215
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    And you are right, I dont like the discussion because all it has turned into is a 'We should have taken so and so. Drew Stubbs sucks.' and that kind of stuff drives me nuts, especially since these guys have not even been around long enough to gather 300 at bats or 60 innings pitched.

  7. #216
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    And you are right, I dont like the discussion because all it has turned into is a 'We should have taken so and so. Drew Stubbs sucks.' and that kind of stuff drives me nuts, especially since these guys have not even been around long enough to gather 300 at bats or 60 innings pitched.
    True, the difference doesn't need to be that stark. I think what's happening is that a good number of people wanted the Reds to go after an arm with Lincecum's supreme stuff and it's frustrating to see a kid who can be spectacular slip past the organization.

    Stubbs could turn out to be a fine player. My guess is he's going to spend a good amount of time as a toolsy work in progress. If that's the case, there's going to be a good amount of consternation if Lincecum continues going the way he is.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  8. #217
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    From BA.

    2. Tim Lincecum, rhp, Giants (Triple-A Fresno)

    Last week's No. 1 moves down a spot, though you could go either way. After walking six on April 23, Lincecum bounced back to whiff 14 over six innings on Sunday. He's allowed just one earned run in 31 innings. If Brian Sabean doesn't have Lincecum's cell number on speed-dial, he should now.

  9. #218
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    All I did was point out that 1) leading in to the draft most questioned Stubbs ability to hit. 2) Since being drafted Stubbs has only added to those concerns.

    Without a doubt Stubbs is not a fast track to the majors. Being a high bonus pick he will get the benefit of the doubt and every opportunity to succeed. It still could end up being an very good draft even if Stubbs is a bust.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  10. #219
    Smells Like Teen Spirit jmcclain19's Avatar
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Lincecum is now scheduled for his first major league start on Sunday night for the Giants

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...=.jsp&c_id=mlb

  11. #220
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcclain19 View Post
    Lincecum is now scheduled for his first major league start on Sunday night for the Giants

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...=.jsp&c_id=mlb
    Should be an entertaining game for ESPN, as he'll be matched up against Cole Hamels.

  12. #221
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Bump. In his first start Lincecum received a rather rude welcome by the Phillies.
    In 4 1/3 innings he gave up five hits, five walks five runs, five earned runs and two bombs. On the bright side he did strike out five batters.

  13. #222
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Bump. In his first start Lincecum received a rather rude welcome by the Phillies.
    In 4 1/3 innings he gave up five hits, five walks five runs, five earned runs and two bombs. On the bright side he did strike out five batters.
    I have a feeling that if Bailey debuts like Lincecum did half of Redszone will be screeching about him not being ready. Lincecum's stuff looked good, as advertised, but he's got to get his fastball down or he's going to be very inefficient out there. We'll see if he can have a better 2nd outing, like Phil Hughes did.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  14. #223
    Smells Like Teen Spirit jmcclain19's Avatar
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    I think from here on out, to be "fair & balanced" when lamenting the Reds non-draft of Lincecum, I'm going to reference the other player I was quite upset the Reds passed over for Stubbs along with Lincecum- UNC's Daniel Bard

    Bard is getting his brains beat in the high octane Cal League - with some ugly crooked numbers including a 22BB/9K ratio going on.

  15. #224
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcclain19 View Post
    I think from here on out, to be "fair & balanced" when lamenting the Reds non-draft of Lincecum, I'm going to reference the other player I was quite upset the Reds passed over for Stubbs along with Lincecum- UNC's Daniel Bard

    Bard is getting his brains beat in the high octane Cal League - with some ugly crooked numbers including a 22BB/9K ratio going on.
    Ouch. I really liked Bard coming out of UNC. Didn't he slip a bit in the draft that year?

  16. #225
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    whatever. you don't like the discussion don't post. it's valid as long as the two players being discussed continue to play.

    In the first place, In the Redszone draft, I cyberdrafted Linecum with the first pick. I was on board with him from the beginning. Second, Stubbs was outhit by four guys for all of last year in the Pioneer league. A hitters league. He didn't OPS over .800 in rookie ball. It's been stated he had an injury last year. 2 years, 2 injuries.

    For every Sizemore you pull out, we can pull out 10 Juan Pierres. Or more. Sizemore is the exception certainly not the rule.

    Yeah, I would have preferred Weaver to Bailey. I said so at the time. But Bailey is at least at AAA on the cusp of the major leagues. At the rate Stubbs is hitting, he won't see Cincinnati in a Reds uni for years.

    And Sabathia isn't a good comp and you know it. He was a HS pitcher that happened to rise fast. He wasn't even the first HS pitcher taken in the draft, though he was the best.

    Linecum was graded as having 2 pitches that were the best in the draft. Stubbs has shown nothing to date that he was worthy of being drafted that high. Defend the pick all you want, but he is quickly turning into BJ Szymanski. But with stellar gold glove defense, I guess.

    I wanted Licecum also but I am wise enough to research and realize his violent delivery was a major red flag for many teams. With the Red's past history are you the genius that was going to step up and take that risk? Just another question directed just at you ok? What was your thoughts on the selection of Homer Bailey ?
    2006 Redzone mock Draftee's- 1(st) Daniel Bard(redsox), 1(st sup)( Jordan Walden (Angels), 2(nd) rd.- Zach Britton(Orioles), 3(rd) Blair Erickson(Cardinals), 3(rd) Tim Norton( Yankees),(cuz its a Tim Hortons thing

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