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Thread: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

  1. #241
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Anything else you want to tell us to post. Any rules or guidelines you've come up with would be helpful. been historically deficient in developing pitching, to see them pass on a guy like him irks some of us. Meanwhile Stubbs is FINALLY starting to hit. He finally has his OPS over .800. BUT this is his scond year in the org. that he's battling some kind of injury. And this one will require surgery in the offseason. He's a far cry offensively from the previous year's #1 pick (Jay Bruce). Bruce could be up with the Reds next year. Stubbs timetable at this point is uncertain. And Lincecum just K'd 10 Astros.

    Ugh.
    The fact is, the Reds had a shot at Lincecum..............as did many other teams. They all passed most likely for similiar reasons

    The real fact is, Lincecum's career may look good now, but how about 3 seasons from now? 1 season from now? You never are going to get EVERYBODY. Considering your building strategy in the minors, you may miss a obvious risk that pans out............or not. The problem with flops is when they continue year after year. Even Dean Taylor has had some decent picks with the Brewers.

    The draft is a crapshoot my friends. The better recruiters will hit more often, but the misses still will come as well.

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  3. #242
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    The thing is the draft is a crap shoot. I am sick of people mentioning how the reds passed on Derrik Jeter to select someone else. If you knew the future of every draft pick then the draft wouldn't be the way it is now. Heck 30 teams passed on Mike Piazza 30+ times. Fact of the matter is Linceum isn't a red and probably wont be a red. He may have a great career or he may blow out after a year or two. Still no one knows right now. All I know right now is that Drew Stubbs is a red. Some people may not like it but no one knows what that guy is going to do.

  4. #243
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Anyone who has followed the draft long enough will recognize that he doesn't know more about who should be picked than the scouting directors and GMs do. People who think otherwise are fooling themselves.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  5. #244
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Heear-ye, hear-ye. A moratorium has been announced on comparing Lincecum and Stubbs. Please refrain from mentioning other things on this site, such as:

    Narron's lineups: He was hired by the FO, so we must now deal with the consequences.

    Krivsky's unquenchable desire for veterans: Bob has made him the GM...so deal with it.

    Eric Milton: Again, he was signed and is a Red. Please root for him until he is not a Red. He may end up pitching well.

    Mike Stanton: Same as above. So what that he sucks now. He might be good later.


    See how ridiculous that sounds? That is the same as what is being proposed about Stubbs/Lincecum. The Reds haven't had good pitching for years and they passed this one up for a toolsy outfielder with questions about his bat. I think this will be an applicable argument for years. Wayne signed off on Stubbs for whatever reason, he must deal with the comparisons.

    I've seen many Kazmir/Gruler comparisons...there is no difference.

  6. #245
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Anyone who has followed the draft long enough will recognize that he doesn't know more about who should be picked than the scouting directors and GMs do. People who think otherwise are fooling themselves.
    I beg to differ. There's a lot of awful scouting directors out there. The good ones surely are worth their weight in gold, but there's others who go years without turning up a major league regular. Theoretically you could put names on a board and throw darts and do better.

    Buckley's first Reds draft is looking fairly good despite not taking Lincecum (and at this point I think it's fair to say he should have - even if you don't think Lincecum will hold up, right now he's worth three Drew Stubbses), so I'm not lumping him into the inept pile.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  7. #246
    ZCTRMTP!!!!! texasdave's Avatar
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    I watched this game down here on FOX SW and would just like to say that although Lincecum's delivery is unorthodox, it is at the same time effortless. Or seemed effortless to me. Jim Deshaies likened his delivery to Orel Hershiser. He also recanted a story claiming that Lincecum's father patterned his son's delivery after Sandy Koufax.

    PS I love me some Drew Stubbs.

  8. #247
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    I watched some of the game too, and I thought the comparison to Hershiser was on target. Apparently, the father had some informed health reasons in mind when he helped his kid develop the delivery he now has.

    Just dominating stuff. All the better that he slicing and dicing the Stros.

    I tired a long time ago of the Lincecum/Stubbs talk, but I can't help but regret the Reds not having this kid. Small solace -- I scooped him for one of my fantasy teams a few days before he was called up.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  9. #248
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    I gotta admit that this one leaves me extremely saddened every time i see this guys line.........The Reds needed another OF'r in the system about as much as Brittney Spears needs another short skirt. Lincecum, at the time of the draft, was widely considered a guy who could come in and be an outstanding closer..............and a rather quick contributor. Instead, Wayne was feeling rather comfortable at the time of the draft with the idea that was slowly brewing in his head......."if i combined Felipe, and Kearns, I could cut payroll AND get Majewski, Bray, and maybe, just maybe, if i persuade him with a nice new pair of pants, old Bowden will toss in Royce Clayton!". And with that, history was made. It can't be changed, but we sure as heck can question it.

    For all the blind reds strokers on this board, and there are many, meet me on the southbound side of the Brent Spence bridge tonight. I'll be wearing a red shirt that says "KRIVSKY" on the back of it. I'll take a running leap over the side, and I'm pretty sure you'll all follow me into the chilly night sky. Because that's what you do. Follow blindly into the night.

  10. #249
    Ya can't teach speed... Triples's Avatar
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Personally, I find the last paragraph of this post to be offensive. While I don't consider myself a "blind reds stroker" I do believe that being a loyal reds fan and seeing the glass as half full rather than half empty are admirable traits. Likewise, there are folks on this board who humbly admitt that maybe....just maybe, a guy who as spent the last 30 years making a living in the game might know more than they do. My question to you Redblood is, who died and made you the all knowing, omnipotent source of all baseball knowlege that would allow you to be so critical of others opinions?

    Quote Originally Posted by REDblooded View Post

    For all the blind reds strokers on this board, and there are many, meet me on the southbound side of the Brent Spence bridge tonight. I'll be wearing a red shirt that says "KRIVSKY" on the back of it. I'll take a running leap over the side, and I'm pretty sure you'll all follow me into the chilly night sky. Because that's what you do. Follow blindly into the night.
    Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona. Not all holes, or games, are created equal. ~George Will


  11. #250
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    When almost every critical viewpoint on this board is met with criticism, I'd say I have a pretty strong case. You find it offensive for me to state an opinion, fine, I find it more alarming that every and all questions on this board are met with a load of Mr Roger's happy rubbish. I didn't open this thread wanting to gripe, but once again, I was left shaking my head when everybody who questioned the selection of Stubbs over Lincecum was in turn attacked personally, for having an opinion. And THAT, I find offensive.

    If you don't want to question management or ownership, then you must live in a world where you believe all things are equal, every team tries just as hard and finishes with a .500 record, and the World Series is decided by a coin flip, because, after all, every team is run by guys with loads of baseball experience, correct? That would mean that there are no right or wrong decisions, just lucky bounces and breaks. It's a grand approach, for a slug, but if you don't mind, I'll continue to have a spine and form my own opinions without considering myself a baseball god, or even an expert for that matter.

  12. #251
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Quote Originally Posted by REDblooded View Post
    When almost every critical viewpoint on this board is met with criticism, I'd say I have a pretty strong case. You find it offensive for me to state an opinion, fine, I find it more alarming that every and all questions on this board are met with a load of Mr Roger's happy rubbish. I didn't open this thread wanting to gripe, but once again, I was left shaking my head when everybody who questioned the selection of Stubbs over Lincecum was in turn attacked personally, for having an opinion. And THAT, I find offensive.

    If you don't want to question management or ownership, then you must live in a world where you believe all things are equal, every team tries just as hard and finishes with a .500 record, and the World Series is decided by a coin flip, because, after all, every team is run by guys with loads of baseball experience, correct? That would mean that there are no right or wrong decisions, just lucky bounces and breaks. It's a grand approach, for a slug, but if you don't mind, I'll continue to have a spine and form my own opinions without considering myself a baseball god, or even an expert for that matter.

    Was attacked personally? Come on, I could say the opposite. Anyone that supported Stubbs over ANYBODY else was attacked personally.

  13. #252
    Ya can't teach speed... Triples's Avatar
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Redblood, you missed my point entirely. I have no problem with you questioning management's decisions. In fact I respect your right to have an opinion. What I object to is your calling anyone who doesn't question managements decision or doesn't like to tear down a player (who hasn't hardly had a chance to yet prove himself) a "blind red's stroker". If you want folks to respect your right to an opinion, then you will have to respect others right to have an opinion without resorting to calling them names. Which seems a bit childish in its own right anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by REDblooded View Post
    When almost every critical viewpoint on this board is met with criticism, I'd say I have a pretty strong case. You find it offensive for me to state an opinion, fine, I find it more alarming that every and all questions on this board are met with a load of Mr Roger's happy rubbish. I didn't open this thread wanting to gripe, but once again, I was left shaking my head when everybody who questioned the selection of Stubbs over Lincecum was in turn attacked personally, for having an opinion. And THAT, I find offensive.

    If you don't want to question management or ownership, then you must live in a world where you believe all things are equal, every team tries just as hard and finishes with a .500 record, and the World Series is decided by a coin flip, because, after all, every team is run by guys with loads of baseball experience, correct? That would mean that there are no right or wrong decisions, just lucky bounces and breaks. It's a grand approach, for a slug, but if you don't mind, I'll continue to have a spine and form my own opinions without considering myself a baseball god, or even an expert for that matter.
    Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona. Not all holes, or games, are created equal. ~George Will


  14. #253
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Heear-ye, hear-ye. A moratorium has been announced on comparing Lincecum and Stubbs. Please refrain from mentioning other things on this site, such as:

    Narron's lineups: He was hired by the FO, so we must now deal with the consequences.

    Krivsky's unquenchable desire for veterans: Bob has made him the GM...so deal with it.

    Eric Milton: Again, he was signed and is a Red. Please root for him until he is not a Red. He may end up pitching well.

    Mike Stanton: Same as above. So what that he sucks now. He might be good later.


    See how ridiculous that sounds? That is the same as what is being proposed about Stubbs/Lincecum. The Reds haven't had good pitching for years and they passed this one up for a toolsy outfielder with questions about his bat. I think this will be an applicable argument for years. Wayne signed off on Stubbs for whatever reason, he must deal with the comparisons.

    I've seen many Kazmir/Gruler comparisons...there is no difference.
    I never said that anyone should blindly follow the Reds. We should question and/or criticize what the Reds players and front office do. I think that the Reds should let Milton and Stanton go, as well as Narron (assuming there is a decent replacement lined up). And I would love to have Tim Lincecum too. But the Reds and many other teams passed on tiny Tim almost a year ago. And the fact is that the Reds have passed on almost all of the American-born players in the majors at some point in the draft. I just feel it is rediculous to whine for years over passing up on a player in a draft. I would have prefered Lincecum too, but the Reds made a pretty good pick in Stubbs considering the weakness of that draft. It just happens to be that the Giants made a great pick. Should we hate Stubbs for his entire Reds career just because the Giants made a great pick. I'm sorry, but I just don't see the logic in that. I'm not telling anyone to do anything, but it's my opinion that we should get over not having Lincecum and at least root for Stubbs to turn out well instead of hating him and rooting against him just to be able to say "I told you so."
    PS: Sorry for the mini-rant, and no I am not Drew Stubbs.

  15. #254
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Quote Originally Posted by Aronchis View Post
    Was attacked personally? Come on, I could say the opposite. Anyone that supported Stubbs over ANYBODY else was attacked personally.
    ahem.

    that's crap. dougdirt and I have gone in circles on this argument. never once have we attacked one another. He's sick of the argument. It's probably why he hasn't chimed in. Cuz if he did, he'd point out that Stubs has been raking in the month of May.

    I'd counter that Lincecum has been dominating at the major league level though.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  16. #255
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    I wasn't necessarily talking about you and Doug. But the angry outcry against Stubbs was pretty nasty last fall. I wasn't thrilled with the pick and at the time of the draft didn't care for it. Tim isn't without his downsides, more than other pitchers have, but no doubt has a great arm. Crapshoot.

    I find it funny, that the Lincecum fans are now quite possibly regreting the firing of Dan O'brien so soon considering Krivsky's problems..................

    Give him another draft, he drafts Lincecum(which I think was a good possiblity the way the draft turned out), the Reds suck out, he is fired, another GM is hired. Ah, the crapshoot the game of baseball can be.


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