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Thread: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

  1. #76
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    For all the accomplishments you point out about Stubbs, I'll counter with the following:

    He was out hit, SIGNIFICANTLY by four other guys on his team that also made their professional debut in 2006. Scouts had serious questions about his bat and thought the pick was a reach by the Reds.

    WMP had 26 HR's in 336 AB's in 2004. At age 22. Wanna see the list of guys in MLB history that have done that? If I were running the show in Boston, I'd start him in CF over Crisp. Yes you'd lose a little defensively, Crisp is a good CF, but the gain offensively would be huge. Crips has 43 HR's. Lifetime. Pena could hit 43 this year if he got 500 AB's.

    As for learning on the job, it can take years. I wasn't good at my current job until 3 year ago. This is my seventh year here. There was a big learning curve from my previous career to my current one, and very little training.

    The main reason I don't give Stubbs the benefit of the doubt is that he never should have been selected in the first place. I hope he proves me wrong though.
    Last edited by TRF; 02-21-2007 at 10:18 AM.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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  3. #77
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    What do you guys expect out of draft pick? Assume Stubbs makes it to the majors and hits around .260. Wouldn't that make him a very effective player? You also have to realize that he played a full college season that I think is starting as we speak and then went right into minor league ball. What does the drain on your body do to your over all game? I think you have to give him a pass on last years season and let him prove himself this season.

  4. #78
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    TRF, so after all of this you basically admit that you have no faith in him becuase you didnt like the draft pick?

  5. #79
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    What do you guys expect out of draft pick? Assume Stubbs makes it to the majors and hits around .260. Wouldn't that make him a very effective player? You also have to realize that he played a full college season that I think is starting as we speak and then went right into minor league ball. What does the drain on your body do to your over all game? I think you have to give him a pass on last years season and let him prove himself this season.
    I think most on here would be happy if Stubbs makes it to the majors and hits .260 while playing great defense. If he can add an OBP in the .330-.340 range, folks will be happy. I think quite a few have serius doubts that he'll get that far though.

    As far as fatigue, the four players who outhit him in Billings all played a full college season as well. It didn't seem to affect their ability to hit well in rookie ball. That said, I'm willing to give him a pass simply because I really want to see him play well and rise through the system. I hope he "breaks out" and rakes in A ball this season.

  6. #80
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    I think most on here would be happy if Stubbs makes it to the majors and hits .260 while playing great defense. If he can add an OBP in the .330-.340 range, folks will be happy. I think quite a few have serius doubts that he'll get that far though.

    As far as fatigue, the four players who outhit him in Billings all played a full college season as well. It didn't seem to affect their ability to hit well in rookie ball. That said, I'm willing to give him a pass simply because I really want to see him play well and rise through the system. I hope he "breaks out" and rakes in A ball this season.
    I'm hoping he proves me wrong, but last year was a huge disappointment. Going from the Big 12 to rookie ball is pretty much a step down.

  7. #81
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I'm hoping he proves me wrong, but last year was a huge disappointment. Going from the Big 12 to rookie ball is pretty much a step down.
    Yeah, and he played nearly the entire season with an injury that no one wants to be able to see as a reason for him struggling.

  8. #82
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Yeah, and he played nearly the entire season with an injury that no one wants to be able to see as a reason for him struggling.
    His concussion?

  9. #83
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Midway through the year, he got nicked a little bit, had a couple of injuries he had to deal with, then he had more of a major injury toward the end of the year that he had to deal with.
    That is from the Mustangs GM Gary Roller, thanks to Redlegnation who did an interview with him last week.

  10. #84
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    That is from the Mustangs GM Gary Roller, thanks to Redlegnation who did an interview with him last week.
    He might be right, but I hate when people come up with injuries after the fact.

  11. #85
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    TRF, so after all of this you basically admit that you have no faith in him becuase you didnt like the draft pick?
    sue me... I'm human.

    One of the reasons I didn't like the pick was that scouts had doubts about him transitioning to the pro game.

    Another reason was I did prefer Linecum.

    Another reason is the Reds talent evaluators have kind of a well crappy track record in 2006.

    I didn't like the pick when it was made, and I don't like it in hindsight as well. I hope I am wrong though. It's crow I'd gladly eat.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  12. #86
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    sue me... I'm human.

    One of the reasons I didn't like the pick was that scouts had doubts about him transitioning to the pro game.

    Another reason was I did prefer Linecum.

    Another reason is the Reds talent evaluators have kind of a well crappy track record in 2006.

    I didn't like the pick when it was made, and I don't like it in hindsight as well. I hope I am wrong though. It's crow I'd gladly eat.
    I would have rather had Billy Rowell myself, but that doesnt mean I think Drew Stubbs is a failure for it, becuase it has nothing to do with him.

  13. #87
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    He might be right, but I hate when people come up with injuries after the fact.
    Stubbs never came out and said it.... the GM of his team said it. I could see your point as using it as an excuse had Stubbs said it, but the GM said it, and he really has no affiliation with the Reds staff, coaches or management. He just gets to do the Billings Mustangs stuff, he has no say over players or anything like that.

  14. #88
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I would have rather had Billy Rowell myself, but that doesnt mean I think Drew Stubbs is a failure for it, becuase it has nothing to do with him.
    It does in a way. Something about Stubbs made the Reds talent evaluators say sign this guy. Something that most scouts didn't see. Something that most publications didn't see either.

    Now considering this is the same organization that signed Juan Castro to a two year deal as a player, (ugh) I wonder where Krivsky is getting this keen insight from.

    Let me say this. If Stubbs is in Dayton all year and posts another .760 OPS will you still be in his corner? And since he was a 1st round pick, he'll get multiple chances to prove he was worth his signing bonus.

    Again... I hope he does. I just don't think he will.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  15. #89
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Stubbs never came out and said it.... the GM of his team said it. I could see your point as using it as an excuse had Stubbs said it, but the GM said it, and he really has no affiliation with the Reds staff, coaches or management. He just gets to do the Billings Mustangs stuff, he has no say over players or anything like that.
    You never know. But if he had a really "serious" injury, I don't think this would be the first we'd be hearing about it.

    He was all over the place in that answer...saying that they knew he would struggle off the bat and then bringing the injuries up.

  16. #90
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    Re: Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    It does in a way. Something about Stubbs made the Reds talent evaluators say sign this guy. Something that most scouts didn't see. Something that most publications didn't see either.

    Now considering this is the same organization that signed Juan Castro to a two year deal as a player, (ugh) I wonder where Krivsky is getting this keen insight from.

    Let me say this. If Stubbs is in Dayton all year and posts another .760 OPS will you still be in his corner? And since he was a 1st round pick, he'll get multiple chances to prove he was worth his signing bonus.

    Again... I hope he does. I just don't think he will.
    Do I agree with some of the teams scouts? not at all. If next season Stubbs posts a .760 OPS in the MWL, no, I will not be in his corner. But if he posts an OPS of .800 of better, I will take that out of someone who plays the defense he does in CF. Will he get more chances than most to succeed becuase of where he was drafted, sure.
    As for his draft positioning, if the Reds didnt take him, he still was going to go in the top 15. I dont know where you read otherwise, but I would be interested in seeing it if you could find it again becuase nothing I saw suggested otherwise. The only thing any scouts had to say bad about his game that I read was his inibility to make contact may be a problem as a pro. Thats it. Everything else rated above average except his arm, which rated at average.


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