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Thread: Lincecum v. the Mets and other observations

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    Lincecum v. the Mets and other observations

    I went to the Giants-Mets game last night and got to watch Lincecum pitch in person. I was behind home plate in the Mezzanine (right below the upper tier).

    The first time through the lineup the kid was dominant. He was getting ahead in the count on everyone and most were late on his fastball.

    First time against Beltran on a 1-2 count, he threw a wicked breaking ball that nearly got Carlos, who checked his swing. Next pitch was a 99 MPH (stadium radar) fastball that blew him away.

    The Mets best hitters seemed to figure him out a little as the game went on. Beltran laid off the high heat and Lincecum couldn't get his breaking stuff over. After Carlos worked a walk, same deal from Delgado, except he relocated a high, straight fastball about 420 feet over the LF fence.

    The Mets scored their third run after Reyes worked a walk, and Beltran waited for a fastball of his liking that he laced down the line for an RBI double. As the game went on, a lot of hitters were able to foul off pitches and work the count.

    Interesting that the Giants chose to let him go out to pitch the top of the seventh with 101 pitches. He breezed through the inning, though, and finished with 113 pitches. Redzone will have a meltdown if Narron ever does that with Bailey.

    But Lincecum is very impressive. His delivery, however, makes you think that his arm will fall off after every pitch. It's almost like a slingshot. From all accounts, the kid has a rubber arm, though.

    Also, maybe it was just two bad at bats...but he's the worst hitting pitcher I've ever seen. He makes Harang look like Rod Carew.

    The Giants didn't exactly send out the "A" team to support the kid, though, ol'Jerry would shed a tear looking at this lineup:

    R. Winn cf
    K. Frandsen 2B
    R. Aurilia 1B
    B. Molina C
    P. Feliz 3B
    D. Ortmeier lf
    O. Vizquel ss
    F. Lewis rf

    Other observations:
    - Bonds better break the HR record in SF. Man the Mets fans got on him when his stuck his oversized head out of the dugout for the first time as a late-inning pinch hitter. If he breaks the record on the road it'll be to a chorus of boos.

    - I wonder how Mets fans will treat Guillermo Mota, who returns from his steroids suspension tonight. If they cheer him, are they hypocrites. If he pitches to Bonds, at least they're on even terms.

    - Schoenweis looks finished. He's awful. Good non-signing by the Reds.

    - Oliver Perez misses a lot of bats. He's still got some nasty pitches in his arsenal. He was a little wild in the 1st and grooved fastballs to Winn and Molina (for HRs). But settled down and cruised the rest of the game. Good pickup for the Mets.

    - They might as well put wheels on Shea and call it a bandwagon. There were 47K fans last night, but very few that I would call 'die-hard' fans. I bet there were 10K pre-teen girls with David Wright jerseys. Whenever he came to bat, the shrill screams were so loud I bet all of the dogs in Queens started barking.

    - Overall though, it was a good experience. I can't wait until they tear down Shea. The Mets new stadium is currently under construction. They need it in the worst way, Shea is a dump.

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    Re: Lincecum v. the Mets and other observations

    Quote Originally Posted by NJReds View Post
    Overall though, it was a good experience. I can't wait until they tear down Shea. The Mets new stadium is currently under construction. They need it in the worst way, Shea is a dump.
    You are just parroting what Marty says now....:

    Great post. Interesting stuff on Lincecum. I flinch too when I see wild mechanics. I guess some guys have a rubber arm desipte having a herky jerky motion, however, I have a hard time believeing it, right or wrong.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

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    Re: Lincecum v. the Mets and other observations

    Mets' fans are bandwagon fans?

    I'd say you're describing a phenomenon that you see in 98% of all MLB ballparks--screaming chippies, soccer moms, and boy scout troops. The occasional goon looking to pick up promotional items en masse to sell on eBay. The great American pastime indeed. I don't see how that's Mets-specific, though. Same stuff in Philly, Cincy, San Fran, LA, you name it.

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    Re: Lincecum v. the Mets and other observations

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    You are just parroting what Marty says now....:.
    Nah...I've been saying it for years, before I ever heard Marty's opinion.

    Interesting stuff on Lincecum. I flinch too when I see wild mechanics. I guess some guys have a rubber arm desipte having a herky jerky motion, however, I have a hard time believeing it, right or wrong.
    I don't know if 'herky-jerky' is the right description. More of a slingshot action. In any event, it works for him.

    What impressed me was that he struggled with getting his breaking stuff over, and except for Delgado's blast and Beltran's double, he didn't really give up a lot of hard hit balls. Guys were working the count, though, fouling off pitches, and got him over 100 after 6 innings.

    He wasn't intimidated, though. He brushed back Delgado and Wright with heat. Wright he pushed off the plate after Delgado's HR. Not chin music...just hard inside fastballs. That's good to see from a young guy.

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    Re: Lincecum v. the Mets and other observations

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Mets' fans are bandwagon fans?

    I'd say you're describing a phenomenon that you see in 98% of all MLB ballparks--screaming chippies, soccer moms, and boy scout troops. The occasional goon looking to pick up promotional items en masse to sell on eBay. The great American pastime indeed. I don't see how that's Mets-specific, though. Same stuff in Philly, Cincy, San Fran, LA, you name it.
    I've been seeing this more and more (or so it seems) FCB. Don't get me wrong, there's always been fair weather casual fans, and always will be. But over the past year or so I've seen more and more folks who are at the game but don't even pay attention or spend most of their time on the cellphone or getting up and down to go to the bathroom/concession stands. At last Sunday's game there was a scoccer mom type with two young girls (maybe 10 to 14 years old) and they spend aproximatley zero percent of the time watching the game. I really wondered why they bothered to come. Something tells me they went home and bragged too all their friends about this great ballgame they saw.

    Quote Originally Posted by NJReds View Post
    Nah...I've been saying it for years, before I ever heard Marty's opinion.
    Don't resist it. We all know you are programed by the great poofy haired one.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

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    Re: Lincecum v. the Mets and other observations

    Quote Originally Posted by NJReds View Post
    - Schoenweis looks finished. He's awful. Good non-signing by the Reds.
    In 19.2 innings this season, Schoenweis has given up 4 home runs, walked 17 guys, and only struck out 9 batters. That's a DIPS ERA of 7.43, which means Schoeneweis is actually fortunate to have only a 5.95 ERA.

    The whole Schoeneweis ordeal last season was probably my favorite "little" move Krivsky made all season. The Reds acquired him in August for cash, took advantage of his fluke 2005 season which bumped up his FA compensation status to Type B, then immediately let him walk for a compensation pick. The fact that he got lucky here in 14.1 innings and pitched well was just an added bonus.

    Now whether the mindset in acquiring him/letting him walk was in grabbing the compensation pick or not, I'm not sure, but that's how it worked out. Nevertheless, there's nothing wrong with essentially buying supplemental pick #53 for what was likely a paltry amount of cash.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

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    Re: Lincecum v. the Mets and other observations

    I was at the game and thought Lincecum was very impressive. He will need some care and feeding -- letting him throw too many pitches in the high 90s could shorten his career -- but I still wish the Reds had picked him.

    I don't think there is anything wrong with attracting casual fans. The Mets are exciting and lots of people want to come to see them these days. Hasn't always been the case. Watching Jose Reyes fly around the bases last night, it's no wonder people want to see them play.

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    Re: Lincecum v. the Mets and other observations

    I'd be wary of letting Lincecum go past 100 pitches, no matter what his pitching motion is like. Rich Harden has a great, natural motion, and he's had only slightly fewer injuries than Mark Prior.

    On a side note, it looks like Ollie Perez has completed his turnaround, thanks to pitching coach Rick Peterson.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

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    Re: Lincecum v. the Mets and other observations

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Mets' fans are bandwagon fans?

    I'd say you're describing a phenomenon that you see in 98% of all MLB ballparks--screaming chippies, soccer moms, and boy scout troops. The occasional goon looking to pick up promotional items en masse to sell on eBay. The great American pastime indeed. I don't see how that's Mets-specific, though. Same stuff in Philly, Cincy, San Fran, LA, you name it.
    It seemed different then the last time the Mets were real good, though. I bet half the folks there didn't know who Strawberry was much less Seaver.

    I'm just picking on them. I have nothing against Mets fans. Had a great night at the park. Fun atmosphere.

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    Re: Lincecum v. the Mets and other observations

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    Don't resist it. We all know you are programed by the great poofy haired one.

    Search your feelings...you know it to be true.

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    Re: Lincecum v. the Mets and other observations

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    You are just parroting what Marty says now....:

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    Re: Lincecum v. the Mets and other observations

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    You are just parroting what Marty says now....:

    Great post. Interesting stuff on Lincecum. I flinch too when I see wild mechanics. I guess some guys have a rubber arm desipte having a herky jerky motion, however, I have a hard time believeing it, right or wrong.
    Lincecum's not nearly old enough to be pronounced rubber-armed. It has to be awarded in retrospect. All we know at this point is that he hasn't been injured yet.

    A few years ago, when A.J. Burnett was being ridden like a cheap claimer by Jeff Torborg, some guys on the board were questioning it. Ramp101 (hope he's still around) insisted that it was okay, that Burnett was rubber-armed. Burnett was 25. Early the next year, he was on Dr. Andrews' famous table.
    Not all who wander are lost

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    Re: Lincecum v. the Mets and other observations

    Lincecum seems like a fair comp for Bailey in terms of where he's at with stuff and command at the moment. In fact, Jered Weaver seems to be similar IRRC.

    - Great fastball, commanded well
    - Solid primary offspeed pitch, sporatic command
    - "Show me" secondary, sporatic command

    When the fastball is on, the offspeed stuff is that much more effective. Pretty much going to live and die by the fastball until the other stuff comes around. However, the fastball is so darn good that he can be effective in the meantime with what he's got. They each have their own health/delivery issues, but it's interesting that they seem to be working with the same basic package.

    Will Carroll has a great piece on Lincecum on MLB.com right now. He talks about the fact that Lincecum has specifically trained so that his body is designed to handle his unique delivery, which takes the stress off his shoulder and elbow and transfers it to his back. He posits, however, that Lincecum may be particularly sensitive to changes in his mechanics.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: Lincecum v. the Mets and other observations

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandRed View Post
    Lincecum's not nearly old enough to be pronounced rubber-armed. It has to be awarded in retrospect. All we know at this point is that he hasn't been injured yet.

    A few years ago, when A.J. Burnett was being ridden like a cheap claimer by Jeff Torborg, some guys on the board were questioning it. Ramp101 (hope he's still around) insisted that it was okay, that Burnett was rubber-armed. Burnett was 25. Early the next year, he was on Dr. Andrews' famous table.
    Im with you on that one IslandRed. Untill a guy can put up say 5 years of solid performance with high innings, I'd be warry of calling him 'rubber armed'. Toss in the herky jerky/sling shot mechanics.....we'll I'd be even less inclined to give him the rubber arm monkier until it's duly earned.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

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    Re: Lincecum v. the Mets and other observations

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Will Carroll has a great piece on Lincecum on MLB.com right now. He talks about the fact that Lincecum has specifically trained so that his body is designed to handle his unique delivery, which takes the stress off his shoulder and elbow and transfers it to his back. He posits, however, that Lincecum may be particularly sensitive to changes in his mechanics.
    Mark Prior says hi! Whenever I hear about a how a young pitcher's mechanics should keep him free of injury, I cringe. It is all about work load, and organizational management to control that work load.
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.


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