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Thread: Some Tough Bullpen Decisions Loom.

  1. #46
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    Re: Some Tough Bullpen Decisions Loom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Leader View Post
    If Eddie Guardado is ready to go, I have no problems optioning Coutlangus to AAA to make room for him. He is the major league team's closer. You have to make room for him no matter how hard the decision.

    When Coffey is ready to roll, I don't have a problem optioning Salmon, either. You have to have your best players on the major league team and although Salmon is a good relief pitcher, I believe Cofffey, when right, is better.

    When Bray is ready to come off the DL, then you can look at possibly trading or DFA'ing Staton, IMO, as I do think Bray in for Stanton would further improve the bullpen.
    Coutalangus could go, but he's the best lefty we have. He does have the option though. I'd like to see a trade of a vet. I love Stormy, but if he has trade value it might not be a bad idea.
    And This One Belongs to the REDS!!!

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  3. #47
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    Re: Some Tough Bullpen Decisions Loom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    There's an opening for EVERY spot in the bullpen as far as I'm concerned.
    No doubt, but there is a particular need for a closer, and all though I'm sure the young guys are well aware of it, I'd stiil hammer home, "Hey guys, it's there. Who's gonna step up?"

  4. #48
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    Re: Some Tough Bullpen Decisions Loom.

    Saw Guardado last night in Dayton.
    He didn't break 80 on the speed gun.
    He's rushing his comeback.
    I wouldn't count on anything soon.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

  5. #49
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    Re: Some Tough Bullpen Decisions Loom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc D View Post
    I don't want to ever see him pitch for us again but I don't have any issue with Miltons effort. Just wanted to make a distinction between ripping him for his lack of performance(I'm all for it and do it often) and questioning his charachter.
    I agree completely. Thanks for expressing that clearly. Milton has taken a lot of derision but has been a stand up guy. His career is likely over and he, better than anyone, most likely knows that. That's a tough thing to deal with and he easily could have lashed out but he's hasn't.

    Rem

  6. #50
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    Re: Some Tough Bullpen Decisions Loom.

    Quote Originally Posted by corkedbat View Post
    I would also meet with the young guys left in the Cincy, AAA & AA pens and tell them you guys are the bullpen of the future and 2008 Spring Training starts right now.
    I think that's a perfect way to position it.

    Rem

  7. #51
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    Re: Some Tough Bullpen Decisions Loom.

    Quote Originally Posted by dfs View Post
    Saw Guardado last night in Dayton.
    He didn't break 80 on the speed gun.
    He's rushing his comeback.
    I wouldn't count on anything soon.
    he still has never had the shoulder fixed. counting on EG is nothing but a pipe dream, he is old, still has a bad shoulder and the season is lost and he is decidedly not the future.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  8. #52
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    Re: Some Tough Bullpen Decisions Loom.

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    he still has never had the shoulder fixed. counting on EG is nothing but a pipe dream, he is old, still has a bad shoulder and the season is lost and he is decidedly not the future.
    Right. If Guardado returns and performs admirably, and Weathers becomes his 1-2 punch in the setup role, then you know Narron is going to rely heavily upon them, and then what has that gained us? A few months of adequate, aging veterans getting the lion's share of the work, and more days of guys like Salmon, Burton, McBeth sitting on their hands during the meaningful stretches of the games (or shipped out to AAA altogether).

    Weathers is going to net us a solid return if we cash him in, but otherwise I'm more than satisfied with developing our youngsters in the bullpen, in an attempt to separate the keepers from the fodder. If Wayne wants us to take a 'wide lens' approach to this franchise's status, then he needs to be consistent in doing the same. And that means letting youth be served, rather than more moves to cobble together a veteran BP on an already sunken ship from the likes of the innumerable washed out veterans he's paraded through here the past 2 years. For every Guardado and Weathers, there's been two Stanton/Cormier types.

    Make the hard choices by jettisoning guys like Stanton and Majik and Santos, and by slow-playing Guardado's return etc... rather than just cutting bait by moving the youngsters with options back to the minors, or letting them ride pine.

  9. #53
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    Re: Some Tough Bullpen Decisions Loom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    Make the hard choices by jettisoning guys like Stanton and Majik and Santos, and by slow-playing Guardado's return etc... rather than just cutting bait by moving the youngsters with options back to the minors, or letting them ride pine.
    I agree completely, but why are we talking about this like it's a hard choice?

    It's a measure of how upside-down the Reds universe has become. Over the past seven seasons, the Reds have become so wedded to bad decisions, so incapable of learning from their mistakes, that we now consider it a hard decision to jettison awful pitchers.

    Gary Majewski is a punching bag. The organization literally has a slew of more intriguing young pitchers - Coffey, Salmon, Burton, Coutlangus, McBeth, Medlock, Guevara, Pelland, Bray, maybe even Bailey. Mike Stanton's near/at the end of his rope. If he can't pitch well for you in the here and now, then he's got no point. This season is over. There's no point in pretending otherwise. The Reds are going nowhere fast in 2007.

    As such, it seems like the easy thing to do would be do figure which young arms could be relied upon in the future rather than continue to ride the nags who took you down in the first place.

    For the past year I've been stunned by what the franchise has done in the name of fixing the bullpen. It hasn't worked and it was rather predictable that would be the case. I imagine many of us are at the point where all we can do is shake our heads and point out that it's up to the Reds to stop poking themselves in the eyes with a sharp stick. It would be the easier thing to do.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  10. #54
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    Re: Some Tough Bullpen Decisions Loom.

    Burn up the phone working a deal for Weathers now. Worst case, move him closer to the deadline. I'd do the same with EG. I know a deal with a rehabbing pitcher is likely a non-starter, but Trader-Wayne could at least attempt to package EG with Weathers or push him as "he'll be ready just in time for your strech drive", "he's a bull-dog", "he's got vet-presence", "or he could be the first player/bullpen-coach". Whatever it takes to move the guy for some prospect.

    Stanton - DFA

    Santos - shop him hard as a "solid" long relife guy (at least while he has that image now). I would have done the same with Sarrloos instead of sending him packing for peanuts.

    I'd sit down Bray, Salmon, Cooter, Coffey, Burton, McBeth and some of the more interesting AAA arms in one big "rah-rah" meeting as someone else suggested. Make it clear, in no uncertian terms, that the orginzation has decided they are the core of the bullpen-of-the-future. Pole and Krivsky sit down and craft a plan whereby the roles of the remaining guys are determined. "pitch counts" established. And number of days of rests between uses clearly established. Put this together this "bullpen usage matrix" on a big posterboard in the dougout for Jerry's use. The first time Jerry deviates from it....he's fined $1000 (or some other harsh penalty).
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  11. #55
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    Re: Some Tough Bullpen Decisions Loom.

    Well, Coffey's back and to make room for him Brad Salmon is now on the road back to Kentucky.

    There's the first domino.
    "Strickland Propane... Taste the meat, not the heat." - Hank Hill

  12. #56
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    Re: Some Tough Bullpen Decisions Loom.

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfan30 View Post
    Well, Coffey's back and to make room for him Brad Salmon is now on the road back to Kentucky.

    There's the first domino.
    Fairly pointless move. Salmon's easily one of the seven best relievers this organization has got at the moment. Krivsky keeps shuffling the wrong guys while holding onto the wrong ones.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  13. #57
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    Re: Some Tough Bullpen Decisions Loom.

    I don't understand what is keeping Santos around. He has never had any success in his entire career and he continues getting pummelled around. And as of last night, he's not even the long reliever anymore, rather he was the 4th guy out of the pen. Both him and Majewski should be gone well before Salmon.

    Even with his control issues he has shown the ability to rack up K's. If the control issues continue, he still has his uses and the potential to improve.

    In regards to Coffey, he shouldn't have been sent down in the 1st place. He went down and dominated from the start as if he was a major league calibre pitcher. Once the HR rate regresses to the mean, he will be back to being our top reliever in short order.


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