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Thread: Salty solution

  1. #46
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    Re: Salty solution

    Agreed, no way do I do Dunn for Salty straight up. I say trade Griff (with 1/2 of his salary paid) along with Cueto and maybe another piece (no Votto or Wood though). Maybe Lohse, Hatteberg, or Conine could be that other piece.

    If the Braves want more or younger guys, I'd offer Stubbs, Cueto and Wood, but that's it- no mas.

    I would then offer Dunn a 4-year $55 million deal to see if he bites. If not, I'd start thinking about what return I could get for him at the deadline. One final question- I know it has been said that his deal would get voided if he is traded this season. What if he is traded after this season (and once his option gets picked up.) Is he then tied to that team for one year at $13 MM? Would he be more attractive in a trade like that or as a 4-month rental this year? These are questions the Reds need to be thinking about in case he wont take the $55 MM deal.
    Go BLUE!!!

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  3. #47
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: Salty solution

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    I would then offer Dunn a 4-year $55 million deal to see if he bites. If not, I'd start thinking about what return I could get for him at the deadline.
    If you don't want to deal him until you find out if he'll take a reasonable extension, I can see that logic. But if we end up putting him on the block, don't expect "better than Saltalamacchia" as a return, is all I'm sayin'.

    One final question- I know it has been said that his deal would get voided if he is traded this season. What if he is traded after this season (and once his option gets picked up.) Is he then tied to that team for one year at $13 MM? Would he be more attractive in a trade like that or as a 4-month rental this year? These are questions the Reds need to be thinking about in case he wont take the $55 MM deal.
    As I understood it from posts in another thread, if his option is picked up he immediately gets no-trade protection until next June 15, after which he has limited no-trade. So "extend and trade" doesn't appear to be an option.
    Not all who wander are lost

  4. #48
    Little Reds BandWagon Reds Nd2's Avatar
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    Re: Salty solution

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandRed View Post
    As I understood it from posts in another thread, if his option is picked up he immediately gets no-trade protection until next June 15, after which he has limited no-trade. So "extend and trade" doesn't appear to be an option.
    Yep, that option won't fly.

    http://mlb4u.com/teamcontract.php?te...cinnati%20Reds
    Adam Troy Dunn: signed 2-year deal worth 18.5M thru 2007 season on 2/13/06- + he receives salaries of 7.5M in 2006 and 10.5M in 2007- + the deal includes a Team Option for 2008 worth 13M or a 500K buyout- + the option is eliminated if he is traded- + he receives a 500K assignment bonus if traded- + the value of the option could rise to 16M with award-based escalators- + if the option is exercised, he receives a complete a no-trade clause until June 15, 2008 (after that date he can select 19 teams to which he cannot be traded to w/out his consent)- + 2005 salary: 4.6M
    Agent: Greg Genske, Brian Peters Service Time: 5.074
    "...You just have a wider lens than one game."
    --Former Reds GM Wayne Krivsky, on why he didn't fly Josh Hamilton to Colorado for one game.

    "...its money well-spent. Don't screw around with your freedom."
    --Roy Tucker, on why you need to lawyer up when you find yourself swimming with sharks.

  5. #49
    Member Eric_Davis's Avatar
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    Re: Salty solution

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I completely agree JPUP. Add in the fact that the Reds will have plenty of cheap and young position players and options to fill out the pen and the bottom of the rotation and it seems like there should be plenty of Money saved from Milton/Lohse/Griffey/Hatte/Conine/Larue/Stanton/Weathers/Saarloos/Castro/Javy to pay the built in raises for Harang and Arroyo, deal with raises for Phillips et al, acquire a solid rotation pitcher and an impact bullpen guy. The team would be set with Dunn in LF creating runs with Hamilton, Votto, EdE, Phillips and Bruce.

    Who's gonna catch?
    Rob Neyer: "Any writer who says he'd be a better manager than the worst manager is either 1) lying (i.e. 'using poetic license') or 2) patently delusional. Which isn't to say managers don't do stupid things that you or I wouldn't."

  6. #50
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    Re: Salty solution

    Found this from Baseball America, but I don't know what the date is:

    Quote:
    Considered somewhat suspect defensively coming out of high school, Saltamacchia has worked very hard to get better. He spent the spring picking veteran Todd Pratt's brain to upgrade his game-calling ability, and he continues to be more comfortable working with pitchers. He has a strong arm and a release that has quickened considerably, enabling him to throw out 36 percent of base stealers in 2006.
    Rob Neyer: "Any writer who says he'd be a better manager than the worst manager is either 1) lying (i.e. 'using poetic license') or 2) patently delusional. Which isn't to say managers don't do stupid things that you or I wouldn't."

  7. #51
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    Re: Salty solution

    Keep in mind that the Braves spent the whole winter turning down offers for Saltamacchia. He's been on the trading block for nearly a year now. They are very patient and they will get what they want. I'm sure Wayne has already identified what they want. It's not going to happen if the price is too high or the REDS have better options.
    Rob Neyer: "Any writer who says he'd be a better manager than the worst manager is either 1) lying (i.e. 'using poetic license') or 2) patently delusional. Which isn't to say managers don't do stupid things that you or I wouldn't."

  8. #52
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    Re: Salty solution

    1. Jarrod Saltalamacchia, c Born: May 2, 1985; B-T: B-R Ht: 6-4 Wt: 195

    Drafted: HS–West Palm Beach, Fla., 2003 (1st round supplemental) Signed by: Alex Morrales

    Jarrod Saltalamacchia Background: The 36th overall pick in the 2003 draft, Saltalamacchia built a reputation during high school as a big league hitter and has done little to disappoint. He established himself as the best all-around catching prospect in the minors with a breakout 2005 campaign. He set career highs across the board, rated as the top prospect in the high Class A Carolina League and starred for Team USA in an Olympic pre-qualifying tournament after the season. However, he followed up with his most difficult season as a pro. A lingering wrist injury and his increased focus on improving his defense led to struggles at the plate during the first half of the year. Saltalamacchia batted just .197 with four homers in the first three months before going on the disabled list with an injury to his wrist. He returned with a vengeance by hitting .338 with five homers in his last 23 games of the regular season before leaving Double-A Mississippi to rejoin Team USA for an Olympic qualifying tournament. Saltalamacchia helped the United States qualify for the 2008 Beijing Games and capped the event with a homer off Cuban closer Pedro Luis Lazo. He continued to rake in a brief stint in the Arizona Fall League, going 13-for-23 (.535) with three homers before hamstring problems shut him down. Saltalmacchia’s brother Justin spent a year in the Braves system as a utilityman in 2003.

    Strengths: Saltalamacchia’s calling card is his ability to hit and drive the ball from both sides of the plate. He has one of the sweetest swings in the game from the left side, displaying a natural loft that should produce solid home run numbers. Despite his troubles in 2006, the Braves have no concerns about his offensive ability, especially with the way he regrouped at midseason. His walk rate continues to increase as he climbs the minor league ladder. Considered somewhat suspect defensively coming out of high school, Saltamacchia has worked very hard to get better. He spent the spring picking veteran Todd Pratt’s brain to upgrade his game-calling ability, and he continues to be more comfortable working with pitchers. He has a strong arm and a release that has quickened considerably, enabling him to throw out 36 percent of base stealers in 2006. Saltalamacchia has shown increased maturity, particularly after getting married midway through the 2005 season. Always upbeat, he has a desire to learn and improve.

    Weaknesses: Consistency is the key to Saltalamacchia reaching the majors in the near future. He’ll make more consistent contact once he displays more patience and waits for his pitch. In 2006, opponents noticed Saltalamacchia collapsing the backside of his swing from both sides of the plate. His righthanded swing is a little mechanical, though he was more productive from that side in 2006. He batted .262 against lefties, compared with .214 against righties. Defensively, he needs to continue to improve his footwork and to learn how to set up more advanced hitters.

    The Future: Brian McCann is one of the best young catchers in baseball, and while Saltamacchia is similarly gifted, there’s room for only one of them behind the plate in Atlanta. For now, Saltalamacchia will continue to hone his skills at catcher, where he has the most value. If he doesn’t begin the year at Triple-A Richmond, he should get there at some point in 2007. His bat should be ready for Atlanta by mid-2008, where the Braves may have to move him to first base or left field.
    Rob Neyer: "Any writer who says he'd be a better manager than the worst manager is either 1) lying (i.e. 'using poetic license') or 2) patently delusional. Which isn't to say managers don't do stupid things that you or I wouldn't."

  9. #53
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    Re: Salty solution

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    The Reds already have 3 catchers. Why would they want another one?
    To get to an even number???...

    Actually, it would allow Moeller to serve as a pinch-hitter as well


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  10. #54
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    Re: Salty solution

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric_Davis View Post
    Found this from Baseball America, but I don't know what the date is:

    Quote:
    Considered somewhat suspect defensively coming out of high school, Saltamacchia has worked very hard to get better. He spent the spring picking veteran Todd Pratt's brain to upgrade his game-calling ability, and he continues to be more comfortable working with pitchers. He has a strong arm and a release that has quickened considerably, enabling him to throw out 36 percent of base stealers in 2006.
    It's from the write up they did for their 2007 Prospect Handbook.
    "...You just have a wider lens than one game."
    --Former Reds GM Wayne Krivsky, on why he didn't fly Josh Hamilton to Colorado for one game.

    "...its money well-spent. Don't screw around with your freedom."
    --Roy Tucker, on why you need to lawyer up when you find yourself swimming with sharks.

  11. #55
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    Re: Salty solution

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpup View Post
    Have you guys looked at the league leaders in OPS lately?

    1. Barry Bonds 1.099
    2. Chipper Jones 1.017
    8. Ken Griffey Jr. .922
    10. Adam Dunn .911

    Adam Dunn is heading back to where we expected him to be at this point. Too many people IMO are still killing him based on the end of last season. His defense has improved and isn't the bottom of the barrel in the NL as some would have you believe. Dunn is 3rd in homeruns, 8th in walks, 6th in runs, and 7th in slugging. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/player...e?statsId=6763)

    I'm not sure why he doesn't deserve 13-15 million from the numbers he is putting up based on the current salaries in baseball. Just because he has struck out 1000 times, literally, in his career doesn't mean he isn't very, very valuable. Adam Dunn is much more valuable to any team than Jarrod Saltalamacchia.

    Adam Dunn is also only 27 years old. What am I missing?

    The thing is there is where Jr is now, there's where he'll be offensively by the end of the season, and there's how many games he'll be able to play in between those two point...

    The safest bet is he wont end up where he is now and the numbers of games between the two points won't be as many as a team trading a prospect would like.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  12. #56
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    Re: Salty solution

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I cant justify giving up 4 of our top 10 prospects for 1 prospect. Just seems like too much to me.
    Salty is playing at the MLB level.

    Can you say the same for any of the 4 I listed?

    That would be no, no, no, and no.

    Votto's the only one that seems to be a "sure" thing to get some MLB experience anytime soon. The other 3 are still crap shoots.

    I think it would be organizationally responsibly (ok, I might have made up that phrase...) to use minor league assets to attain major league talent.

    We don't have any C prospects anywhere on the radar. Getting Salty solves that problem.

  13. #57
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    Re: Salty solution

    Quote Originally Posted by 37red View Post
    Good read. Choosing the next move as Dunn is traded, which will happen, is a good move and probably already in the works. What if Dunn wants to go back to Texas, he's been leaning towards them for a long time. It's hard to get him back on the plane to come home. Would there be a multi team trade that could be worked out?
    Not that this is related at all, but the Rangers have been shopping, and continue to shop Mark Texieria. I would love to get him, but not at the expense of Dunn.

    With the Rangers seemingly wanting to part ways with Marky Mark, I'm sure they've contacted Wayne.

  14. #58
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    Re: Salty solution

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric_Davis View Post
    We've had this conversation going on here now for three days. Anyone know how good a defensive catcher Saltamachia is? I can only guess that he must be outstanding, or he wouldn't have been taken with the 33rd overall pick in the draft (1st Round).
    "Defensively, he has all the athleticism, arm strength, and game intelligence necessary to be a fine catcher, needing only additional experience."
    -John Sickels, The Baseball Prospect Book 2005

    Other notes from Sickels:
    -"Showing power and good defensive skills for Rome in the Sally League" [power at that age is rare, and it should continue to develop]
    -"He has a long swing"
    -"He had problems with nagging injuries last year, and further nicks and scratches may hurt his development"
    -"OPS of +6 percent" [that is rather low for a top prospect in Sally ball]

    I see reasons for tempering our enthusiasm for this guy. Given that this is his second go-around in AA, he should be tearing the cover off the ball. And Chili is right--he could very well be a Bobby Estalella flameout.

  15. #59
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    Re: Salty solution

    Quote Originally Posted by D-Man View Post
    "Defensively, he has all the athleticism, arm strength, and game intelligence necessary to be a fine catcher, needing only additional experience."
    -John Sickels, The Baseball Prospect Book 2005

    Other notes from Sickels:
    -"Showing power and good defensive skills for Rome in the Sally League" [power at that age is rare, and it should continue to develop]
    -"He has a long swing"
    -"He had problems with nagging injuries last year, and further nicks and scratches may hurt his development"
    -"OPS of +6 percent" [that is rather low for a top prospect in Sally ball]

    I see reasons for tempering our enthusiasm for this guy. Given that this is his second go-around in AA, he should be tearing the cover off the ball. And Chili is right--he could very well be a Bobby Estalella flameout.


    This is what salty did in 82 at bats in the southern league this year: .309/.404/.617 OPS: 1.022
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  16. #60
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    Re: Salty solution

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    This is what salty did in 82 at bats in the southern league this year: .309/.404/.617 OPS: 1.022
    ??

    Yes, that's impressive. But it's only 82 ABs. Again, he is repeating the circuit.

    His overall minor league record (including this year's 82 ABs): .830 OPS

    Bobby Estalella's minor league record: .810 OPS

    So he strikes me a bit as a flavor-of-the-day type. And when you add in long swing, catcher, injury history, and relatively low BA. . . I guess I'll temper myself somewhat.


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