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Thread: Daugherty and Accountability

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    Member Phhhl's Avatar
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    Daugherty and Accountability

    On sports talk tonight, Paul Daugherty virtually interrogated Krivsky about some of the moves the club has made recently. He grilled him about failing to bring Hamilton to Colorodo for the last game of the series Sunday, when he was eligible. He asked him why it took so long to bring up Bailey and called him out for moving Livingston (off a very good outting) back to Louisville for a guy (McBeth) that has yet deliver a major league pitch. Wayne got a little flustered, and even brushed off one comment by saying the topic was "inside baseball stuff" that we would not understand.

    Now, I have to say I am not always a big fan of Paul's negative approach. And I don't know if I agreed with everything he tried to say tonight. But, I also have to say that it was great radio. It's obvious that something is seriously wrong with this team, and somebody needs to put the screws to the men who put it together and hold them responsible. It doesn't seem like ownership is ready to do it, and the apathy of the fans who aren't spinning the turnstiles doesn't seem to register. I applaud Daugherty for getting out from behind the typewriter and the shadows to take on the general manager. I never hear Jim Rome or Lance McAllister, or Tom Gamble do that in their haste to kiss posterior whenever a live guest graces their airwaves.

    And, btw, I applaud Krivsky for coming in and facing the music as well. I have been a supporter of ownership since they took over, but I am getting a little tired of BC's vanishing act after the bold words he spoke in his first press conference.

    In a completely unrelated broadcasting note, I want to contratulate 1530 for firing Richard Skinner.
    Last edited by Phhhl; 06-06-2007 at 07:53 PM.

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    Member Marc D's Avatar
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    Re: Daugherty and Accountability

    No matter how rough Daugherty was it wasn't rough enough.

    We are once again in the hands of an incompetent GM and an apathetic and decietful owner. Narron is just the icing on the cake.

    This franchise will soon enter into conversations about the worst in all of sport.

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    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Daugherty and Accountability

    an apathetic and deceitful owner?

    Wow. It's just incredible to me that people say these sort of things after a guy has owned the team less than 18 months.
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    Re: Daugherty and Accountability

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    an apathetic and deceitful owner?

    Wow. It's just incredible to me that people say these sort of things after a guy has owned the team less than 18 months.
    I don't think thats the case with Bob, I think there is just only so much he can do right now...

    The spending this past offseason was absurd and not in our interests to get involved in...

    I think hes giving Kriv a little leeway... hopefully we see results in the next yr\

    I'll call for Kriv's firing if we suck next year... we over performed last year... expectations were a little high by the staff this yr granted we shouldnt be this bad

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    This one's for you Edd Heath's Avatar
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    Re: Daugherty and Accountability

    I don't see Bob Castellini turning into David Glass.

    I think BCast looks towards St. Louis alot and wants to mold that type of organization.
    Some people play baseball. Baseball plays Jay Bruce.

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    Member Marc D's Avatar
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    Re: Daugherty and Accountability

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    an apathetic and deceitful owner?

    Wow. It's just incredible to me that people say these sort of things after a guy has owned the team less than 18 months.

    What have they done in those 18 months to make you think they are on the right path?

    BC talked a good game about winning when he came in, now he's standing pat with his "winner" and rolling the dice with HB to sell tickets.

    WK has created one of the worst pens in history, extended Narron and pulled the trigger on The Trade.

    If thats the first 18 months I don't really want to see another.

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    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Daugherty and Accountability

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc D View Post
    What have they done in those 18 months to make you think they are on the right path?

    BC talked a good game about winning when he came in, now he's standing pat with his "winner" and rolling the dice with HB to sell tickets.

    WK has created one of the worst pens in history, extended Narron and pulled the trigger on The Trade.

    If thats the first 18 months I don't really want to see another.
    I just fail to accept the idea that the team inherited by this regime was a contender or even close. We're seeing that now with the way they're playing.

    From where I sit the biggest thing that hasn't changed is the Cincinnati fans fine sense of melodrama.
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    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Daugherty and Accountability

    I don't get the impression Bob Castellini is either apathetic or deceitful.

    I think he grossly underestimated the size of the bear trap into which he leapt, but, unlike his immediate predecessor, I imagine this team's losses weigh on him.
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    Member Marc D's Avatar
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    Re: Daugherty and Accountability

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    I just fail to accept the idea that the team inherited by this regime was a contender or even close. We're seeing that now with the way they're playing.

    From where I sit the biggest thing that hasn't changed is the Cincinnati fans fine sense of melodrama.

    I'm not even measuring by W's and L's. I see no benchmarks along the way that tell me they have a clue. If thats melodrama to you then so be it, people probably defended Dan O and Miley up till the last day as well.

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    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Daugherty and Accountability

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I don't get the impression Bob Castellini is either apathetic or deceitful.

    I think he grossly underestimated the size of the bear trap into which he leapt, but, unlike his immediate predecessor, I imagine this team's losses weigh on him.
    Couldn't agree more.

    We all knew this entire orginization was a disaster from the top to the bottom. That the men BCast hired haven't been perfect in revamping an entire "corporate culture" in 18 months and he hasn't rashly fired them to satisfied the mob is not "proof" of him being apathetic or decietful.

    My father and I were sitting in section 220 a while back. The section is right next to BCasts box. It was one of the many rough nights for the Reds and BCast was pacing and looked like he wanted to puke. I don't mean to say this takes the place of actual performance, but I doubt Uncle Carl would have broken a sweat in such a situation.
    Last edited by Ltlabner; 06-06-2007 at 08:26 PM.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

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    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Daugherty and Accountability

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I don't get the impression Bob Castellini is either apathetic or deceitful.

    I think he grossly underestimated the size of the bear trap into which he leapt, but, unlike his immediate predecessor, I imagine this team's losses weigh on him.
    I think the hot start the Reds got off too last year may have given Castellini the impression that the Reds were a lot closer to success that they really were which really wasn't the best thing that could have happened under the circumstances.
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    Re: Daugherty and Accountability

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    I just fail to accept the idea that the team inherited by this regime was a contender or even close. We're seeing that now with the way they're playing.
    Agreed. I do think that Krivsky has somehow taken the inherently bad product, and actually managed to make it worse (and if not for the saving grace of taking fliers on Phillips and Hamilton, he'd likely already be on the precipice of meriting dismissal).

    However, as much as I find his decision making process and his philosophical underpinnings suspect, I think he deserves a chance to define his tenure by how he handles his upcoming duties a.) The 2007 Draft b.) The transitioning to the development of what should be an imminent youth movement c.) How he manages to disassemble the remnant of a sunken team, and how he uses his payflex and personnel to rebuild it. At that point, we'll undoubtedly know whether we have a GM who has learned from past indiscretions, or a hopeless case. Let's just hope he doesn't destroy the future, as well as the present, in the interim.

    As for BCast, I simply don't see how anyone can make a conclusive derogatory judgment regarding his brief tenure, at this juncture. I don't like many of the early returns, nor do I agree with many of the decisions, but I find it premature to make a sweeping proclamation about this 'regime', much less do I feel comfortable calling it "deceitful or apathetic" (even though I completely share Marc D's utter disdain for the way this organization is seemingly being steered).
    Last edited by Stormy; 06-06-2007 at 08:33 PM.

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    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Daugherty and Accountability

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc D View Post
    I'm not even measuring by W's and L's. I see no benchmarks along the way that tell me they have a clue. If thats melodrama to you then so be it, people probably defended Dan O and Miley up till the last day as well.
    I sure think picking up Phillips and Hamilton off the scrap heap and flipping WMP for Arroyo were pretty decent moves and moves that help build a foundation for this team. But I guess those aren't positive "benchmarks" are they? It's a lot easier IMO to sit around and say they should have done better and they are a bunch of lying morons than it is to give any sort of fair evaluation of what has really occurred both good and bad doing their tenure.

    So a lot of Krivsky's moves to solidify the bullpen and bench haven't worked? They sure haven't crippled the teams future or present either, despite the loud protests to the contrary.

    As for DanO and Miley, I'm not sure who was in their camp until the end but it sure wasn't me.
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    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Daugherty and Accountability

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    Agreed. I do think that Krivsky has somehow taken the inherently bad product, and actually managed to make it worse (and if not for the saving grace of taking fliers on Phillips and Hamilton, he'd likely already be on the precipice of meriting dismissal).

    However, as much as I find his decision making process and his philosophical underpinnings suspect, I think he deserves a chance to define his tenure by how he handles his upcoming duties a.) The 2007 Draft b.) The transitioning to the development of what should be an imminent youth movement c.) How he manages to disassemble the remnant of a sunken team, and how he uses his payflex and personnel to rebuild it. At that point, we'll undoubtedly know whether we have a GM who has learned from past indiscretions, or a hopeless case. Let's just hope he doesn't destroy the future, as well as the present, in the interim.

    As for BCast, I simply don't see how anyone can make a conclusive derogatory judgment regarding his brief tenure, at this juncture. I don't like many of the early returns, nor do I agree with many of the decisions, but I find it premature to make a sweeping proclamation about this 'regime', much less do I feel comfortable calling it "deceitful or apathetic" (even though I completely share Marc D's utter disdain for the way this organization is seemingly being steered).
    I think that's a fair assessment. Although I really don't think the team is any worse than last year, they're just playing more to their level (or below it actually). Last year was a mirage that set up Krivsky to be judged harshly this year when they didn't, once again, overachieve.
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    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Daugherty and Accountability

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    I think the hot start the Reds got off too last year may have given Castellini the impression that the Reds were a lot closer to success that they really were which really wasn't the best thing that could have happened under the circumstances.
    Yep. Mix in blind optimism (Hollywood has conditioned us to believe a champion lurks in every ragtag bunch) and you've got an owner who's likely stupefied at the moment.

    The real question for Castellini is how radical is he willing to get? If he takes a conservative approach then he's looking at five or six years before the Reds develop enough kids to be a real factor and that's only if the franchise gets serious about a rebuild starting this summer (and by that I mean doing a lot more than joining the concall for the draft).

    The key is he's got to get past the denial stage. This half-rebuild, half-contend model needs to get whacked with a sledgehammer.
    Last edited by M2; 06-06-2007 at 08:48 PM.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.


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