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Thread: What is Burton really worth?

  1. #1
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    What is Burton really worth?

    Right now if I were the Reds I would be overjoyed if someone offered me
    50K for Burton.

    He is a guy who maxed out at Double A with another team who is now taking up a MLB roster spot and innings for the Reds.

    If these assets were allocated to Salmon, McBeth & Coffey they would be getting valuable experience that will be helpful to the organiztion. They would find out what these young guys can and cannot do in the big leagues, where they fit in, what they need to work on. The same info they could have gotten last Sept if they had called Salmon up then, when the season was for all intents and purposes over, instead, they rented a couple of useless arms, who are playing where now?

    Going back and forth to the Ville is not the answer.
    Look at Salmon the other night, in AAA. 3 batter, 10 pitches, 9 strikes, 3 outs.
    He and the other young men need MLB work, not wasting their arms in AAA while the FO tries to figure out what to do.

    The sad truth is, the Reds will probably never get anything in return for their gamble on Burton.

    While they are at it, they can release Majewski too. As a matter of fact, it would add credibility to their claim of "damaged goods."

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  3. #2
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: What is Burton really worth?

    Salmon is a one trick poney, and I think I would rather have Burton then him.

    McBeth and Coffey are other stories.

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    Re: What is Burton really worth?

    Why's everyone hate Burton, he's had 1 or 2 bad outings. I wish we could send him to AAA though, I believe his only problem is control. 7 walks in 11 innings.
    Follow me on twitter @EricLilly7

  5. #4
    got alil captain in u?
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    Re: What is Burton really worth?

    i agree norris right now the reds are on the rudderless black pearl and jerry narron has replaced captain jack sparrow give burton some work this year see how it goes next year either put him in AAA or the majors depending on how he looks. We did it with willy mo one year we can sure do it with burton

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    Re: What is Burton really worth?

    And I also think the poster before me is being hard on Salmon, he's still 27 we could get him some work this year and he might pan out to be a decent reliever for a year or 2, he's got a great fastball to start with he just needs to work on his other pitches.
    Follow me on twitter @EricLilly7

  7. #6
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    Re: What is Burton really worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by NorrisHopper30 View Post
    And I also think the poster before me is being hard on Salmon, he's still 27 we could get him some work this year and he might pan out to be a decent reliever for a year or 2, he's got a great fastball to start with he just needs to work on his other pitches.
    I don't see a 27 year old developing more pitches. Salmon is past the prospect point, IMO.

  8. #7
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    Re: What is Burton really worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    I don't see a 27 year old developing more pitches. Salmon is past the prospect point, IMO.
    While I agree to a point, I think another point to be made is Burton is 26 years old and has a real problem throwing strikes. It's not like this is some 21 or 22 year old phenom the Reds are holding a spot for.

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    Re: What is Burton really worth?

    Burton did not do that great in AA
    Coffey, Salmon and McBeth all have time in the Reds system and have pitched better in AAA than Burton in AA

    Arms only last so long,

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    Re: What is Burton really worth?

    nevermind

  11. #10
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    Re: What is Burton really worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by StrikeIndicator View Post
    Burton did not do that great in AA
    Coffey, Salmon and McBeth all have time in the Reds system and have pitched better in AAA than Burton in AA

    Arms only last so long,
    Why not let him get at least 30 IP under his belt before we throw him under the bus?

    The opinions on the board in ST were ridiculous...that Burton should close games, but now we are at the diametrically opposed point of view, that he is a worthless piece of garbage. The hyperbole is absolutely off the charts.

    This is a lost season, so why shouldn't the Reds see what Burton can do?

    By the way, here are some numbers that show what some Rule V rookie pitchers have historically accomplished the year they were selected, and what the Reds can reasonably expect out of Burton can likely fall somewhere along these lines:

    Santana, Johan MIN: 86 IP, 102 H, 62 ER, 11 HR, 54 BB, 64 K, 6.49 ERA, 1.81 WHIP
    Turnbow, Derrick ANA: 38 IP, 36 H, 20 ER, 7 HR, 36 BB, 25 K, 4.74 ERA, 1.90 WHIP
    Ayala, Luis MON: 71 IP, 65 H, 23 ER, 8 HR, 13 BB, 46 K, 2.92 ERA, 1.10 WHIP
    Batista, Miguel PIT: appeared in 1 game
    Carvajal, Marcos COL: 53 IP, 52 H, 30 ER, 8 HR, 21 BB, 37 K, 5.09 ERA, 1.38 WHIP
    Grilli, Jason CHW: 45 IP, 52 H, 37 ER, 11 HR, 20 BB, 26 K, 7.40 ERA, 1.60 WHIP
    Ledezma, Wil DET: 84 IP, 99 H, 54 ER, 12 HR, 35 BB, 49 K, 5.79 ERA, 1.60 WHIP
    Mantei, Matt FLA: 13.1 IP, 12 H, 7 ER, 1 Hr, 13 BB, 15 K, 4.73 ERA, 1.88 WHIP

    The trick to competing year-in, year-out for the Reds is going to be upgrading the 25-man, 40-man, and overall system by acquiring more talented players. Maybe Burton is part of the future puzzle, maybe not, but he is a calculated risk...let's see the rewards.

  12. #11
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    Re: What is Burton really worth?

    I dont think we should throw any of the young relievers under the bus, including Majewski. I would get rid of our underachieving older relievers before any of the kids. It is a lost season, and we should try and let the young relievers get some experience.

  13. #12
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    Re: What is Burton really worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by boognish View Post
    Why not let him get at least 30 IP under his belt before we throw him under the bus?

    The opinions on the board in ST were ridiculous...that Burton should close games, but now we are at the diametrically opposed point of view, that he is a worthless piece of garbage. The hyperbole is absolutely off the charts.

    This is a lost season, so why shouldn't the Reds see what Burton can do?

    By the way, here are some numbers that show what some Rule V rookie pitchers have historically accomplished the year they were selected, and what the Reds can reasonably expect out of Burton can likely fall somewhere along these lines:

    Santana, Johan MIN: 86 IP, 102 H, 62 ER, 11 HR, 54 BB, 64 K, 6.49 ERA, 1.81 WHIP
    Turnbow, Derrick ANA: 38 IP, 36 H, 20 ER, 7 HR, 36 BB, 25 K, 4.74 ERA, 1.90 WHIP
    Ayala, Luis MON: 71 IP, 65 H, 23 ER, 8 HR, 13 BB, 46 K, 2.92 ERA, 1.10 WHIP
    Batista, Miguel PIT: appeared in 1 game
    Carvajal, Marcos COL: 53 IP, 52 H, 30 ER, 8 HR, 21 BB, 37 K, 5.09 ERA, 1.38 WHIP
    Grilli, Jason CHW: 45 IP, 52 H, 37 ER, 11 HR, 20 BB, 26 K, 7.40 ERA, 1.60 WHIP
    Ledezma, Wil DET: 84 IP, 99 H, 54 ER, 12 HR, 35 BB, 49 K, 5.79 ERA, 1.60 WHIP
    Mantei, Matt FLA: 13.1 IP, 12 H, 7 ER, 1 Hr, 13 BB, 15 K, 4.73 ERA, 1.88 WHIP

    The trick to competing year-in, year-out for the Reds is going to be upgrading the 25-man, 40-man, and overall system by acquiring more talented players. Maybe Burton is part of the future puzzle, maybe not, but he is a calculated risk...let's see the rewards.

    Great, great post, boog. I agree completely.

  14. #13
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    Re: What is Burton really worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by boognish View Post
    Why not let him get at least 30 IP under his belt before we throw him under the bus?

    The opinions on the board in ST were ridiculous...that Burton should close games, but now we are at the diametrically opposed point of view, that he is a worthless piece of garbage. The hyperbole is absolutely off the charts.

    This is a lost season, so why shouldn't the Reds see what Burton can do?

    By the way, here are some numbers that show what some Rule V rookie pitchers have historically accomplished the year they were selected, and what the Reds can reasonably expect out of Burton can likely fall somewhere along these lines:

    Santana, Johan MIN: 86 IP, 102 H, 62 ER, 11 HR, 54 BB, 64 K, 6.49 ERA, 1.81 WHIP
    Turnbow, Derrick ANA: 38 IP, 36 H, 20 ER, 7 HR, 36 BB, 25 K, 4.74 ERA, 1.90 WHIP
    Ayala, Luis MON: 71 IP, 65 H, 23 ER, 8 HR, 13 BB, 46 K, 2.92 ERA, 1.10 WHIP
    Batista, Miguel PIT: appeared in 1 game
    Carvajal, Marcos COL: 53 IP, 52 H, 30 ER, 8 HR, 21 BB, 37 K, 5.09 ERA, 1.38 WHIP
    Grilli, Jason CHW: 45 IP, 52 H, 37 ER, 11 HR, 20 BB, 26 K, 7.40 ERA, 1.60 WHIP
    Ledezma, Wil DET: 84 IP, 99 H, 54 ER, 12 HR, 35 BB, 49 K, 5.79 ERA, 1.60 WHIP
    Mantei, Matt FLA: 13.1 IP, 12 H, 7 ER, 1 Hr, 13 BB, 15 K, 4.73 ERA, 1.88 WHIP

    The trick to competing year-in, year-out for the Reds is going to be upgrading the 25-man, 40-man, and overall system by acquiring more talented players. Maybe Burton is part of the future puzzle, maybe not, but he is a calculated risk...let's see the rewards.

    Have not had time to research all, but this is a start:

    Santana, A cinderella story, undrafted player gets picked by 'Stro's
    goes to Min at age 20
    Ayala, now pitching in the Carolina League
    Batista how did his one game go?
    Carvajal, on the Mets 40 man, but has spend whole yr in AA
    Turnbow, one good ryr for the Brewers, now out of baseball
    Grilli, pitched 45 inning for CWS with an ERA of 7.40 traded to Detriot
    not playing anywhere in 2007
    Ledezma, 2002 Tigers, 3-7 with no saves
    Manteu had a couple of red hot years out of the box, which is why he
    earned $7 Million in 03 and 04 Released by Tiger '06

    So, out of all of these only one, Santana, is still with the team the R5'd him
    Of the others, two are in LOW minors and do not appear to be moving on up as the Jefferson's would say

    You can quote me here. Jared Burton at 26 is no Johan Santana at 20
    Nice guy, nice try, but he is keeping someone else down on the farm who deserves to be up and gaining valuable MLB experience


    ps
    just heard that he is on the DL,

  15. #14
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    Re: What is Burton really worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by StrikeIndicator View Post
    Turnbow, one good ryr for the Brewers, now out of baseball
    Turnbow is the setup man and is having a decent year with the Brewers. Not an All-Star closer, but not out of baseball.

    BTW, does anyone think that the Reds would have even won one more game without Burton on the roster this year? He's hardly the problem.

  16. #15
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    Re: What is Burton really worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by StrikeIndicator View Post
    Have not had time to research all, but this is a start:

    Santana, A cinderella story, undrafted player gets picked by 'Stro's
    goes to Min at age 20
    Ayala, now pitching in the Carolina League
    Batista how did his one game go?
    Carvajal, on the Mets 40 man, but has spend whole yr in AA
    Turnbow, one good ryr for the Brewers, now out of baseball
    Grilli, pitched 45 inning for CWS with an ERA of 7.40 traded to Detriot
    not playing anywhere in 2007
    Ledezma, 2002 Tigers, 3-7 with no saves
    Manteu had a couple of red hot years out of the box, which is why he
    earned $7 Million in 03 and 04 Released by Tiger '06

    So, out of all of these only one, Santana, is still with the team the R5'd him
    Of the others, two are in LOW minors and do not appear to be moving on up as the Jefferson's would say

    You can quote me here. Jared Burton at 26 is no Johan Santana at 20
    Nice guy, nice try, but he is keeping someone else down on the farm who deserves to be up and gaining valuable MLB experience


    ps
    just heard that he is on the DL,

    Check your records for Grilli...He's been with Detroit all season and last year was an important part of their run.
    Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.
    ~Oscar Wilde


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