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Thread: Paul Daugherty Article About Adam Dunn

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    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Paul Daugherty Article About Adam Dunn

    BY PAUL DAUGHERTY | PDAUGHERTY@ENQUIRER.COM

    No love for Adam Dunn. No affection for the Big Donkey. Man averages 42 homers, 95 RBI and 104 runs scored the last three years. Heís only 27 years old. People think you can find those numbers on Aisle 13 at Wal-Mart.

    No love for 334 walks between 2004 and 2006. No time for 179 homers in the previous five seasons. Only seven current players have hit more long balls during that time. Itís practically a Hall of Fame lineup: Rodriguez, Pujols, Ortiz, Ramirez, Jones, Thome, Soriano ... Dunn.

    No love for our townís Dave Kingman, Greg Luzinski and Rob Deer. Chicks dig the long ball? Evidently not. Chicks dig line drives with runners in scoring position and Web Gems on the Worldwide Leader.

    No room in Cincinnati for Adam Dunn. Wayne Krivskyís Reds are going to pitch and play defense. Dunnerís gonna hit big flies and go fishing. Jerry Narronís Reds will do the ďlittle things.Ē The Big Donkey is better at the big things that travel 400 feet.

    The Reds are looking to trade him. This is the notion. Itís a good one, even if it has been out there since last offseason. Or, according to Dunn, since 2002.

    ďOh-two, oh-three, oh-four,Ē he said. Oh-eight, Iíll hear it. Oh-nine. Iíll believe it when I see it.Ē

    Dunn handles this the way he handles all things: Easily. A little self deprecation, a big shrug. Adam Dunn is a big olí boy whose demeanor is as placid as 6 a.m. on a farm pond. Heíll never be the player people want him to be, probably. Heíll never go ulcerous worrying about it.

    ďWeíll go shopping, me and you,Ē Ken Griffey Jr. interjected, a reference to Dunn being shopped to other clubs. ďWhereíd you like to go? Nordstrom?Ē

    ďBass Pro (Shops)," Dunn said.

    He could be gone in a month or six weeks. He could be a Red all year. Wishing to trade a player doesnít make it so. Dunn makes $10 million this year; heís scheduled to make $13 million next year, if the Reds exercise their option, which they almost certainly wonít.

    Any team wanting Dunn would have to pick up whatís left of this yearís deal (likely $4 million-plus) and negotiate a new one. Without a contract, Dunn becomes a rent-a-player, never a good idea.

    So thereís that. And this:

    It will be hard to trade him. Teams serious about winning donít often target home run hitters at the trade deadline. Especially home run hitters who play defense, um, casually, and strike out close to 200 times a year. Dunnís skills limit his trade factor. Heís a natural-born designated hitter, which might cut a whole league out of the equation.

    Regardless, it has become obvious Dunn is no longer a great fit here. Which is too bad, because heíll leave here with everyone wanting more. Fans who loved him even a year ago have run out of patience with him now. They heard Dunn talk about being a ďgreatĒ outfielder. They heard of his offseason and spring work with hitting coach Brook Jacoby.

    They saw him hit balls to left field the first few weeks of the season. They saw a lightbulb turn on. They were pleased.

    Only now, the seasonís a mess, Dunn hasnít become a great outfielder and he has struck out 83 times in 220 at-bats. He is who he is. Probably, always will be. Itís not all bad, and if the Reds were playing well, he wouldnít be hearing the critical noise.

    But they arenít, and he is.

    Some of us made our peace with the Big Donkey. Some of us, after the last two months of last season, saw the unmet potential and shrugged, the way Dunn might. Forty and 100, with 100 runs scored, ainít bad. A guy could make $10 million a year playing baseball with those numbers.

    If heís traded, itíd open a spot for Norris Hopper to play every day. Itíd signal from Krivsky the next meaningful shift in philosophy. The first was trading Wily Mo Pena for Bronson Arroyo. Itíd remove a laid-back clubhouse presence, for better or worse.

    Itíd ship a lot of runs out of town, too. Several scouts were at Great American Ball Park by late this afternoon. They werenít looking at Eric Milton.
    In the end that is what really scares me about trading Dunn, the fact that some in the organization might actually think Hopper is an everyday player.

    If they don't get a young RH OF bat in return for Dunn it will be a long cold winter before spring returns for the Reds.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    Reds fan for life!!!! WVPacman's Avatar
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    Re: Doc on Dunn

    See thats exactly what almost all of us have been saying.To trade Dunn or any other young player would destroy this team for yet another seven years. THANK YOU PAUL DAUGHERTY
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    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Doc on Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by WVPacman View Post
    See thats exactly what almost all of us have been saying.To trade Dunn or any other young player would destroy this team for yet another seven years. THANK YOU PAUL DAUGHERTY
    Except I don't think that Daugherty is really saying that Dunn shouldn't be traded. I think he's much more ambivalent than that...
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: PAUL DAUGHERTY on Dunn

    The Norris Hopper thing is mind boggling.

    It really is. I can't stop shaking my head.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

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    Reds Slacker '07 RedsMan3203's Avatar
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    Re: Paul Daugherty Article About Adam Dunn

    If WK trades... That is the begining of the end of his GM life...

    It would be difficult to swallow.. Losing Pena and then Kearns... (still believes the trade was for the best) and then Dunn.

    It would be crazy and uncalled for...

    I mean check this OF would... Hopper/Hamebone/Freel - Thats gonna win some games.
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    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Paul Daugherty Article About Adam Dunn

    Somehow I doubt that both Dunn and Griffey will be traded. Frankly, we just don't have enough OF to go around right now with Freel on the shelf. I suspect that Wayne is probably shopping both of them right now, and that he will deal the one he can get the best return for. Let's hope his next big trade is better than his last one!
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    Reds fan for life!!!! WVPacman's Avatar
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    Re: Doc on Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Except I don't think that Daugherty is really saying that Dunn shouldn't be traded. I think he's much more ambivalent than that...
    Oh I know that, I think he is just saying with those kind of stats 42 homers, 95 RBI and 104 runs scored the last three years and hes only 27 that the reds front office should give thie guy more credit.Instead of giving Dunn any credit for putting those kind of numbers on a bad team since he has been here they are throwing him under the bus and on the trading block.Just think what kind of numbers he would put up if we had a good team ever year?? It would be scary!!I think he needs to stay b/c he could help the reds become a better team for years besides the way he has been struggling do they really think we will get anybody good in return in a trade now??

    Its just frustrating to watch our young players get traded year in and year out. I mean I would'nt mind to trade Dunn IF we would get a talented player back and the truth is we are'nt getting nothing good back as of now b/c Dunn is struggling big time.
    I can spell,I just can't type!!

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    "Let's Roll" TeamBoone's Avatar
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    Re: Paul Daugherty Article About Adam Dunn

    RBI just under 100 last year; over 100 the two seasons preceding that.
    "Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn

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    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Doc on Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by WVPacman View Post
    Oh I know that, I think he is just saying with those kind of stats 42 homers, 95 RBI and 104 runs scored the last three years and hes only 27 that the reds front office should give thie guy more credit.Instead of giving Dunn any credit for putting those kind of numbers on a bad team since he has been here they are throwing him under the bus and on the trading block.Just think what kind of numbers he would put up if we had a good team ever year?? It would be scary!!I think he needs to stay b/c he could help the reds become a better team for years besides the way he has been struggling do they really think we will get anybody good in return in a trade now??

    Its just frustrating to watch our young players get traded year in and year out. I mean I would'nt mind to trade Dunn IF we would get a talented player back and the truth is we are'nt getting nothing good back as of now b/c Dunn is struggling big time.
    I agree with you about Dunn. He puts up pretty good stats and takes a lot more flack than he should.

    I also think that Daugherty has a pretty good read on the way we "analytical" Reds fans think about this player others love to hate. The resignation of Daugherty's sarcasm just hits the right tone for me. Paul's like us: he wishes Dunn were more valued, but realizes he isn't, and just hopes that we'll get something of value in return when Dunn is traded (and that's when, not if).

    It's a sorry state of affairs. It really is.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    Reds fan for life!!!! WVPacman's Avatar
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    Re: Doc on Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    I agree with you about Dunn. He puts up pretty good stats and takes a lot more flack than he should.

    I also think that Daugherty has a pretty good read on the way we "analytical" Reds fans think about this player others love to hate. The resignation of Daugherty's sarcasm just hits the right tone for me. Paul's like us: he wishes Dunn were more valued, but realizes he isn't, and just hopes that we'll get something of value in return when Dunn is traded (and that's when, not if).

    It's a sorry state of affairs. It really is.
    I agree with you 100%
    I can spell,I just can't type!!

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    Greatness In The Making RedLegSuperStar's Avatar
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    Re: Paul Daugherty Article About Adam Dunn

    I still can't fathem Dunn being dealt.. this year. Dunn could be dealt in the offseaon though. I'm on the other side of the trade Dunn fence.. only if the trade partner is the Dodgers. Dodgers have a surplus of youth and this is the Reds chance to stock up. What's to say Dunn wouldn't bolt for Houston when his contract is up? He's already stated he would love to play there. There's always going to be "if's" and there's always going to be the "what if's". I just think this team isn't going anywhere this season and with purhaps a Billingsley and Kemp/or Ethier type deal it balances out. We get a rotation of Harang, Arroyo, Bailey, Billingsley, and Belisle/Lohse. As for Kemp or Ethier they add an upgrade to the defense and they are more of situational hitters as opposed to just a homerun hitter. Homeruns are great and exciting.. but this team needs those who can hit with runners in scoring position and don't strike out nearly 200 times. Dunn sells tickets which would hurt sales if a deal is done..unless this team is so far out of it as the deadline nears. This would be a savings of over 11+ million dollars next year because all three of the mentioned make near the league minimum and Dunns option is for 13 million next year. Add Miltons contract to that and this team can actually add some significant upgrades. But in no way should this team deal Dunn to deal Dunn and I don't want that to come acrossed that way. Dunn for bullpen help and a washed up utility player are not what this team needs. If Dunn is dealt the Reds need to get the highest value in return and don't take anything less. Billingsley isn't being used like last season and Kemp isn't either.. so asking for those two may be right up the Reds alley.
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    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Paul Daugherty Article About Adam Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by RedLegSuperStar View Post
    I still can't fathem Dunn being dealt.. this year. Dunn could be dealt in the offseaon though. I'm on the other side of the trade Dunn fence.. only if the trade partner is the Dodgers. Dodgers have a surplus of youth and this is the Reds chance to stock up. What's to say Dunn wouldn't bolt for Houston when his contract is up? He's already stated he would love to play there. There's always going to be "if's" and there's always going to be the "what if's". I just think this team isn't going anywhere this season and with purhaps a Billingsley and Kemp/or Ethier type deal it balances out. We get a rotation of Harang, Arroyo, Bailey, Billingsley, and Belisle/Lohse. As for Kemp or Ethier they add an upgrade to the defense and they are more of situational hitters as opposed to just a homerun hitter. Homeruns are great and exciting.. but this team needs those who can hit with runners in scoring position and don't strike out nearly 200 times. Dunn sells tickets which would hurt sales if a deal is done..unless this team is so far out of it as the deadline nears. This would be a savings of over 11+ million dollars next year because all three of the mentioned make near the league minimum and Dunns option is for 13 million next year. Add Miltons contract to that and this team can actually add some significant upgrades. But in no way should this team deal Dunn to deal Dunn and I don't want that to come acrossed that way. Dunn for bullpen help and a washed up utility player are not what this team needs. If Dunn is dealt the Reds need to get the highest value in return and don't take anything less. Billingsley isn't being used like last season and Kemp isn't either.. so asking for those two may be right up the Reds alley.
    I think we're really agreeing more than you think. We're not really on two different sides of the fence. My main point is that 1) it's sad we're probably going to trade Dunn and 1a) it's even sadder that we probably won't get anything good in return for him.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    We are the angry mob cincyinco's Avatar
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    Re: Paul Daugherty Article About Adam Dunn

    question..

    I know if dunn is traded this year it voids the 08 option.

    but what if we exercise the 08 option and then attempt to trade him? what happens under this scenario?
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    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Paul Daugherty Article About Adam Dunn

    If we trade him at anytime before the offseason it voids, in the offseason we pick it up or he's a FA...also I thought I'd read where picking it up also kicks a limited no trade clause in?
    Go Gators!

  16. #15
    You're soaking in it! MartyFan's Avatar
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    Re: Paul Daugherty Article About Adam Dunn

    I don't think Dunn is the difference maker this team needs. Not now, not a year or two from now.

    This team needs some attitude, confidence and some leadership...both Junior and Dunn are way too placid to be the spark this team needs...they will go out and get their numbers, be GREAT TEAM MATES, encourage others to go out and try real hard and all that...but we need a Greg Vaughn...yeah, I said it...Someone who is used to winning (at any level) to come in and start rattling the cages to get guys on this team to start playing "the right way"...doing the little things.

    Then we need to have the BP act like they have the last week.

    Just my thoughts
    "Sometimes, it's not the sexiest moves that put you over the top," Krivsky said. "It's a series of transactions that help you get there."


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