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Thread: The Reds without Narron...

  1. #1
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    The Reds without Narron...

    They couldn't be any worse. Think about it, if we fire him TODAY, how could we get any worse?

    If we bring in another manager, he couldn't mismanage the bullpen any worse.

    If we bring in another manager, he wouldn't leave pitchers in too long any worse than we do now.

    If we bring in another manager, he possibly couldn't tinker with the lineup any more than we do now.

    If we bring in another manager, he couldn't be any less emotional or motivating.

    If we bring in another manager, he wouldn't rely on the ole lefty/right philosophy more than we do now.



    My question is, what are we waiting on, it couldn't get any worse?

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    Re: The Reds without Narron...

    Quote Originally Posted by pokeyfan View Post
    They couldn't be any worse. Think about it, if we fire him TODAY, how could we get any worse?

    If we bring in another manager, he couldn't mismanage the bullpen any worse.

    If we bring in another manager, he wouldn't leave pitchers in too long any worse than we do now.

    If we bring in another manager, he possibly couldn't tinker with the lineup any more than we do now.

    If we bring in another manager, he couldn't be any less emotional or motivating.

    If we bring in another manager, he wouldn't rely on the ole lefty/right philosophy more than we do now.



    My question is, what are we waiting on, it couldn't get any worse?
    1. I don't think it matters how this bullpen is managed, they're miserable in any role.

    2. Dusty Baker says hi. (Although this is the one point I mostly agree with you)

    3. The great Jim Leyland tinkers with the lineup in Detroit all the time, and I think the Tigers are doing alright.

    4. Be careful what you wish for. Ron Washington, the new skipper for Texas, chews into his players and has already gotten tensions high for his last place Rangers. A Lou Pinella type looks great when the team is winning, but in tough times like the Reds are in do you really want a hot head manager? I sure don't, as the situation in Texas looks downright ugly.

    5. OK? The vast majority of hitters favor facing an opposite handed pitcher (i.e. RHP if they're a lefty or LHP if they're a righty), so playing the matchups when possible is the prudent course of action, even if it seems JN goes out of his way to do it, which sometimes he does.

    To answer your question, "what are we waiting on", I think it's either for the team to go on a very long losing streak (double digit games) or the end of the season, and most likely the latter. Firing Narron now would only result in the interim manager tag being placed on Bucky Dent, and really, what advantage does that give us over the current situation? After the season is over and if the Reds finish up in last, they can go about the search for a manager diligently and professionally, hopefully landing the right man for the job.

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    Re: The Reds without Narron...

    Quote Originally Posted by pokeyfan View Post
    They couldn't be any worse. Think about it, if we fire him TODAY, how could we get any worse?

    If we bring in another manager, he couldn't mismanage the bullpen any worse.

    If we bring in another manager, he wouldn't leave pitchers in too long any worse than we do now.

    If we bring in another manager, he possibly couldn't tinker with the lineup any more than we do now.

    If we bring in another manager, he couldn't be any less emotional or motivating.

    If we bring in another manager, he wouldn't rely on the ole lefty/right philosophy more than we do now.



    My question is, what are we waiting on, it couldn't get any worse?

    You wanna bet? The Reds could go the route they went with when the hired Bob Boone, Dave Miley, Jerry Narron.

    Now, I do agree, Jerry does some odd things at odd times and his handling of the pitching staff leaves just a smidge of room for improvement. But people are acting as if the Reds brought a new manager in tomorrow, we'd win the division. NOT GONNA HAPPEN WITH THIS TEAM. NO WAY, NO HOW, SORRY.

    Just ride the (lost) season out with Narron and throw some damn cash at a REAL manager. Not a retread or a guy with little or no experience.
    "The players make the manager, it's never the other way." - Sparky Anderson

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    Re: The Reds without Narron...

    Outside of landing Girardi, which looks highly doubtful, I'm fine with Narron. Sure, he does some things that you can second guess, but I do see some development with the team as the season progresses. Also, I'd be absolutely apalled if they brought in somebody else who didn't manage as aggresively offensively as Narron does. For everything you can say negatively about him, he really does know how to pull strings with the offense that by and large are successfull. Working with the pieces he has, that is.

  6. #5
    Member harangatang's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds without Narron...

    [QUOTE=pokeyfan;1384733]They couldn't be any worse. Think about it, if we fire him TODAY, how could we get any worse?
    Quote Originally Posted by pokeyfan View Post
    If we bring in another manager, he couldn't mismanage the bullpen any worse.
    What bullpen? A bullpen featuring the one man David Weathers show?
    Quote Originally Posted by pokeyfan View Post
    If we bring in another manager, he wouldn't leave pitchers in too long any worse than we do now.
    Can David Weathers pitch the 7th, 8th, and 9th inning every night? That would be like 486 innings a year.
    Quote Originally Posted by pokeyfan View Post
    If we bring in another manager, he possibly couldn't tinker with the lineup any more than we do now.
    When all your offense gets traded away or sent to the minors for no reason, of course you may need to tinker with the GM's decision.
    Quote Originally Posted by pokeyfan View Post
    If we bring in another manager, he couldn't be any less emotional or motivating.
    With a ballclub 14 games under .500 and an inept GM whom has no idea how to turn it around would you have emotion? Especially if some Reds fans were after you for playing the guys that an inept GM gave you.
    Quote Originally Posted by pokeyfan View Post
    If we bring in another manager, he wouldn't rely on the ole lefty/right philosophy more than we do now.
    Sounds like Narron has no choice but to adopt the "throw something against the wall and hope it sticks" philosophy brought in by Krivsky. It's not like Krivsky has shown the capabilities to obtain competent relief pitching.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokeyfan View Post
    My question is, what are we waiting on, it couldn't get any worse?
    Oh yes it could. If the Reds fire Narron instead of Krivsky I think the Reds could rival the Bengals of the 1990's in the amount of suckitude.

  7. #6
    Member durl's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds without Narron...

    My, my....how soon we forget Bob Boone and his managerial expertise.

    All I can say is this isn't a video game where you can use a reliever every single day or where the L/R matchup isn't as important. Real life baseball has many factors that have to be considered...including how a player is actually going to play any given day.

    Never, EVER say it couldn't get worse. It most certainly can.

    1. What bullpen? Whoever Narron runs out in the middle innings, they've shown that they can blow almost ANY lead.

    2. Goes along with #1. If your bullpen has shown that it can blow any lead, I'd be reluctant to pull the starter as well.

    3. How many different lineups has Narron used and how does that compare to the average for teams similar to Cincinnati? I've not seen any numbers. (Boone...now THERE was a tinkering manager.)

    4. Pinella's time at Tampa Bay showed that every team is different and cannot be motivated the same as others. How do we know that a fire-breathing manager would motivate the Reds right now?

    5. The L/R matchup is practiced by most teams in baseball simply because the stats bear out that it IS effective most of the time.

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    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds without Narron...

    1. I don't think it matters how this bullpen is managed, they're miserable in any role.
    The pen has been horriable this year but I think they have been mismanaged to a great extent. Managing the pen is all about putting your relievers into a situation in which they are comfortable. Weathers has been the only consistant one but how many times did Narron run Coffey out in the 8th inning or a pressure situation to see him fail over and over again. He should have a better feel for his pen and realize that Coffey isn't the answer there? How many times has he left Count in for a batter or two too long?

    One other thing under Narron that the reds dont do is play the game the right way. An example is yesterday Vlad tagged up from first on a fly ball to the outfield and scored on the next hit. Last week Moeller didn't tag up from second on a fly ball to the warning track. If Moeller would have played for the Angels he would be on the first bus back to the minors, instead nothing happened.

  9. #8
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    Re: The Reds without Narron...

    Jerry is pretty much an average manager who isn't getting the most out of his underperforming team. It could be worse, it could be better.

    At the end of the day, the manager can only put players in a position to succeed or fail. What record would a better manager have the Reds at right now?

  10. #9
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    Re: The Reds without Narron...

    Could we get any worse firing Narron today? Uhm, a very big, big yes!!! If that happened, we would likely get stuck with another fill in manager to finish out the season, he may even win a couple games, encouraging the FO to sign him long term, and we are in the same boat we are in now, treading water, hanging on for dear life.

  11. #10
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    Re: The Reds without Narron...

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    The pen has been horriable this year but I think they have been mismanaged to a great extent. Managing the pen is all about putting your relievers into a situation in which they are comfortable. Weathers has been the only consistant one but how many times did Narron run Coffey out in the 8th inning or a pressure situation to see him fail over and over again. He should have a better feel for his pen and realize that Coffey isn't the answer there? How many times has he left Count in for a batter or two too long?
    Coffey had proven himself to be effective last year, so he was given a long leash in the set-up role. Finally, it became apparent he wasn't effective so they tried just about everybody else in that role. I mean, people complain that there are no set roles in the bullpen, yet when Narron tries to give certain guys roles (e.g. Coffey as a set-up man) and the player continually blows it, Narron is forced to "tinker" with other guys in different roles. However, as anybody who has watched 5 or more consecutive Reds games can attest, everybody in the bullpen (save Marcus McBeth) has had a hand in a bullpen meltdown late in the game - i.e. the 8th inning. It seems that no matter who goes out there in the 8th, they're doomed to either blow the lead or let a close game get blown wide open.

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    Re: The Reds without Narron...

    ya it could get worse.... if they brought back Bob Boone

  13. #12
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    Re: The Reds without Narron...

    Quote Originally Posted by durl View Post
    4. Pinella's time at Tampa Bay showed that every team is different and cannot be motivated the same as others. How do we know that a fire-breathing manager would motivate the Reds right now?
    Great example.


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