Turn Off Ads?
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 36

Thread: MLB trying to Copyright Stats, continued

  1. #16
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Right Down Broadway
    Posts
    18,617

    Re: MLB trying to Copyright Stats, continued

    Quote Originally Posted by smith288 View Post
    So they think we arent allowed to report our experiences regarding the venue while you are there? Niiice.
    Not without the express written consent of the NCAA, apparently : So, do they start confiscating laptops and cell phones at the door?

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    The Bush Leagues
    Posts
    9,086

    Re: MLB trying to Copyright Stats, continued

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Intellectual property law is simply absurd in most cases.

    Ebay's getting sued over their "Buy It Now" button. That's just silly.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

  4. #18
    Man Pills
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    24,951

    Re: MLB trying to Copyright Stats, continued

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    Ebay's getting sued over their "Buy It Now" button. That's just silly.
    I'm going to copyright the smell of my farts.

  5. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    The Bush Leagues
    Posts
    9,086

    Re: MLB trying to Copyright Stats, continued

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    I'm going to copyright the smell of my farts.
    I wouldn't worry about infringement.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

  6. #20
    Man Pills
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    24,951

    Re: MLB trying to Copyright Stats, continued

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    I wouldn't worry about infringement.
    Okay, then.

    How about a Pet Rock that smells like my farts?

  7. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    The Bush Leagues
    Posts
    9,086

    Re: MLB trying to Copyright Stats, continued

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Okay, then.

    How about a Pet Rock that smells like my farts?
    Not my cup of tea but still a better idea than muscle pants.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

  8. #22
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Right Down Broadway
    Posts
    18,617

    Re: MLB trying to Copyright Stats, continued

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Okay, then.

    How about a Pet Rock that smells like my farts?
    I think Odd Lots already has a line.

  9. #23
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    San Antonio
    Posts
    13,442

    Re: MLB trying to Copyright Stats, continued

    I have a contrarian view here in that I am rooting for MLB to own the stats or whatever they need to claim ownership of to win this argument. This is because I'm in favor of anything that brings more money to MLB at the corporate level, rather than the team level. Money to MLB floats all of MLB's boats, including the one moored in Cincinnati.

    Mainstream sites like Yahoo and ESPN believe there is money to be made from Fantasy Baseball, because they've been in it for years. Why shouldn't MLB get a cut of what those corporations make from a product that is derivative of MLB's product?
    /r/reds

  10. #24
    Go Reds Go! UKFlounder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Northern KY
    Posts
    1,877

    Re: MLB trying to Copyright Stats, continued

    Quote Originally Posted by Unassisted View Post
    I have a contrarian view here in that I am rooting for MLB to own the stats or whatever they need to claim ownership of to win this argument. This is because I'm in favor of anything that brings more money to MLB at the corporate level, rather than the team level. Money to MLB floats all of MLB's boats, including the one moored in Cincinnati.

    Mainstream sites like Yahoo and ESPN believe there is money to be made from Fantasy Baseball, because they've been in it for years. Why shouldn't MLB get a cut of what those corporations make from a product that is derivative of MLB's product?
    But how far do you extend that logic? Do newspapers have to pay to pring boxscores? Do local TV channels have to pay for every highlight? What about talkshows & discussion of these games, or any internet site that might have a premium forum/area?

    At what point is what those entities do considered "using a derivative of MLB's product" instead of "providing further unpaid-for publicity for that product" or "creating a new area of interest" for that product?

    Perhaps I'm wrong, but I imagine some people pay attention to MLB more for their fantasy leagues than they do for any team loyalty. Take away the fantasy games (or increase prices) and do you lose those fans?

    That last point may be stretching it a bit, but, even if MLB is technically right somehow, isn't enforcing that sort of like biting the hand that feeds them, especially if they expand their view into areas like boxscores, etc?

    That's more of a devil's advocate approach than any concrete thoughts I have, but I do think the core question of "using MLB's info" vs "providing/creating further interest in MLB's product" is worth discussion

  11. #25
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    San Antonio
    Posts
    13,442

    Re: MLB trying to Copyright Stats, continued

    Quote Originally Posted by UKFlounder View Post
    But how far do you extend that logic? Do newspapers have to pay to pring boxscores? Do local TV channels have to pay for every highlight? What about talkshows & discussion of these games, or any internet site that might have a premium forum/area?

    At what point is what those entities do considered "using a derivative of MLB's product" instead of "providing further unpaid-for publicity for that product" or "creating a new area of interest" for that product?
    It should be up to MLB to decide where to draw that line. They'll know which hands are feeding from them and which hands are picking their pocket. The newspaper business is withering on the vine. My local daily paper just dropped 90% of its stock market listings from the daily edition for cost reasons. I can imagine that if the cost became prohibitive for them to run MLB box scores, they might make the same choice.

    Perhaps I'm wrong, but I imagine some people pay attention to MLB more for their fantasy leagues than they do for any team loyalty. Take away the fantasy games (or increase prices) and do you lose those fans?
    I don't want the fantasy games to go away and I doubt that MLB does either or they'd be making a different argument. I just want their corporate captains to give MLB a piece of the profit the games generate. Radio and TV pay for rights to depict MLB's product in a unique fashion, so why shouldn't Yahoo and ESPN.com? If the rights to fantasy stats turn out to have a prohibitively high price, then MLB.com could become the sole source for fantasy games, just like MLBAM is the only place online to listen to and watch MLB games.
    Last edited by Unassisted; 06-15-2007 at 10:22 PM.
    /r/reds

  12. #26
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Land of the Lost
    Posts
    7,254

    Re: MLB trying to Copyright Stats, continued

    Quote Originally Posted by Unassisted View Post
    I have a contrarian view here in that I am rooting for MLB to own the stats or whatever they need to claim ownership of to win this argument. This is because I'm in favor of anything that brings more money to MLB at the corporate level, rather than the team level. Money to MLB floats all of MLB's boats, including the one moored in Cincinnati.

    Mainstream sites like Yahoo and ESPN believe there is money to be made from Fantasy Baseball, because they've been in it for years. Why shouldn't MLB get a cut of what those corporations make from a product that is derivative of MLB's product?
    If you think the buck stops at fantasy baseball, you'd be very short-sighted. If MLB can claim ownership of stats, names, and likenesses, then it would probably spell the doom of Redszone and other sites like it. If MLB has a copyright in stats and players' names, then posting Adam Dunn's BA and K totals (or even OBP and OPS ) without permission would be infringement. Under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), MLB could then send a "take-down" notice to Boss and GIK's host, warning them of the infringing use and requiring them to take down the infringing use. One day you'd come to Redszone and there would just be a message telling you the site has notified that infringing content was posted to the site (just about every thread) and has been removed. Well maybe that's a little simplistic, but that's the risk you run into if you expand copyright to include facts.

    Intellectual Property law is supposed to protect creative endeavors so that those who spend the time creating a book or a play or a painting can profit from it for a reasonable amount of time. Facts are not a creative endeavor. Videotape of a player hitting a home run could be considered "creative" in nature, but the fact that a run was recorded is not.

    The other issue you have is how far can you take "publicity" rights. If Barry Bonds or MLB can control the use of his name and likeness in a fantasy baseball site, does that mean they could control his name and likeness to prevent websites critical of him from using his name or likeness? Not likely. First, that would violate the First Amendment. Second, I was always under the impression that "publicity" rights were intended, in the case of public figures, to prevent use that would improperly imply "endorsement" of the use. As no reasonable person would assume that fantasy baseball websites, or any other website, magazine or newspaper that publishes players' names, likenesses, and stats means endorsement of that site, magazine, or newspaper, I don't think MLB has a leg to stand on.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  13. #27
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    San Antonio
    Posts
    13,442

    Re: MLB trying to Copyright Stats, continued

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    If you think the buck stops at fantasy baseball, you'd be very short-sighted. If MLB can claim ownership of stats, names, and likenesses, then it would probably spell the doom of Redszone and other sites like it. If MLB has a copyright in stats and players' names, then posting Adam Dunn's BA and K totals (or even OBP and OPS ) without permission would be infringement. Under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), MLB could then send a "take-down" notice to Boss and GIK's host, warning them of the infringing use and requiring them to take down the infringing use. One day you'd come to Redszone and there would just be a message telling you the site has notified that infringing content was posted to the site (just about every thread) and has been removed. Well maybe that's a little simplistic, but that's the risk you run into if you expand copyright to include facts.
    I don't buy the slippery slope argument because I trust that MLB will know where to draw the line. Here's an example... the live-blogging of games that C. Trent does is against MLB's live-depiction rules which are posted in MLB pressboxes. And yet C.Trent hasn't been tossed out of a pressbox or told to stop it, unlike his counterpart in Louisville who dared to do that at the College World Series.
    /r/reds

  14. #28
    Haunted by walks
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Syracuse
    Posts
    6,595

    Re: MLB trying to Copyright Stats, continued

    Here's more than you want to know about previous similar cases, from wire services to pagers to gamecasts.

    http://www.jolt.unc.edu/Vol5_I2/web/...ald%20v5i2.htm

    The issue will probably come down to: Does MLB own the facts that the games produce. Courts have not ruled that way before, but MLB keeps trying.

  15. #29
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Land of the Lost
    Posts
    7,254

    Re: MLB trying to Copyright Stats, continued

    Quote Originally Posted by Unassisted View Post
    I don't buy the slippery slope argument because I trust that MLB will know where to draw the line. Here's an example... the live-blogging of games that C. Trent does is against MLB's live-depiction rules which are posted in MLB pressboxes. And yet C.Trent hasn't been tossed out of a pressbox or told to stop it, unlike his counterpart in Louisville who dared to do that at the College World Series.
    You don't think MLB.com would love to have all the web traffic from discussion boards in-house? Why let boards like Redszone draw fans away from the MLB.com discussion boards? They sell ad space over there, so competition from other message boards draws visitors away and negatively impacts their ad revenue. They could easily use it to shut down all online discussion groups and message boards that aren't a part of MLB Advanced Media.

    Slippery slope is very much a concern here. No one thought the RIAA would sue young children for downloading a few songs off the internet, but they have. Copyright law is seeing a great deal of abuse right now. I'd question the motives of anyone seeking to expand copyright, because if you don't, you may end up with a situation where fair use is a thing of the past.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  16. #30
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,730

    Re: MLB trying to Copyright Stats, continued

    Quote Originally Posted by Unassisted View Post
    I don't buy the slippery slope argument because I trust that MLB will know where to draw the line.

    Agreeing to anything because you trust major league baseball is like crossing the street without looking both ways. This especially true when there is money involved.

    IMO the choice to "look the other way" during the steroid era is a recent example of how the current MLB regime can't be trusted to do the right thing when there is a profit to be made. The only reason MLB wouldn't carry this to extremes is if a logical case can be made that it will hurt profits.

    This revenue will also become a point of contention with the union IMO. OTOH, it may unite both the players and the owners to go after this revenue so that they can split it.
    Last edited by mth123; 06-16-2007 at 07:30 AM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25