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Thread: If the Reds had a bullpen.........

  1. #16
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    Re: If the Reds had a bullpen.........

    Quote Originally Posted by NastyBoy View Post
    Reds are 3rd in NL in runs scored and second to last in ERA and 2nd in errors. It is obvious why the reds are the worst team in the NL. We were told this team would win games based on better defense and better pitching. The pitching is worse, the defense no better and now we are left wondering if this team will lose 100 games.
    And the talking heads want to kick the offense....

    In truth it is the pitching being so bad and these guys being resigned to it that drives them to put the offense under such a microscope. If the pen was even average, they wouldn't be talking about too many strike outs or putting the ball in play more, or my favorite, belittling being the league leaders in homers.

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  3. #17
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    Re: If the Reds had a bullpen.........

    the players are not machines, how do you think they feel when they score two only to see the bullpen cede three, or when they come from behind and the bullpen blows it. There are other factors involved besides the pure stats. Teams with bad bullpens find a way to lose

  4. #18
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    Re: If the Reds had a bullpen.........

    Quote Originally Posted by durl View Post
    Narron's lineup's product runs. We're in or near the top 10 in most offensive categories in the NL. Narron's lineups produce the offense needed to win most games but the pitching has wiped it out.
    They dont produce runs when they need them most

  5. #19
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    Re: If the Reds had a bullpen.........

    The bullpen has struggled but i like what i have seen from Mcbeth so far and i think Coutlangous has not been all that bad either

  6. #20
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    Re: If the Reds had a bullpen.........

    Quote Originally Posted by DannyB View Post
    They dont produce runs when they need them most
    Maybe. But they _really_ don't _prevent_ runs when they need to most.

  7. #21
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    Re: If the Reds had a bullpen.........

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    Maybe. But they _really_ don't _prevent_ runs when they need to most.
    Thank you. To blame the Reds' woes on its inability to score runs is like blaming the Bengals' recent woes on its inability to score points. Nevermind the inablity to prevent the other team from scoring, it's all the offense's fault. Especially its team's leader in several offensive categories.

  8. #22
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    Re: If the Reds had a bullpen.........

    Big run production last night eh?

    If Jerry would have used the same lineup as the previous few games Conine could have been the DH.
    Last edited by DannyB; 06-19-2007 at 06:05 AM.

  9. #23
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    Re: If the Reds had a bullpen.........

    .
    Last edited by durl; 06-21-2007 at 10:58 AM.

  10. #24
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    Re: If the Reds had a bullpen.........

    Reds offense in close and late situations
    BA / OBP/SLG/OPS
    .200/.266/.306/.572
    Opponents
    .300/.381./453/.834
    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/Statis...getype=batting
    Stats are odd check out opponents r vs rbi but show both the offense and pitching are bad.

    Reds Innings 7& on
    .236/.301/.363/.664
    opponents
    .274/.353/.408/.761
    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/Statis...getype=batting

  11. #25
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    Re: If the Reds had a bullpen.........

    The Reds also have the worst batting average with RISP and worst ERA with RISP in the NL, they are 3rd in unearned runs. They aren't getting it done "when it counts" on any level. This team is simply not "clutch" as is true of most losing teams.

    For the record, starters are now 20-30, bullpen is 8-15. Personally, I think the talent level is improving but the team is young or old at a lot of key positions (especially in the pen). They just don't have guys who are in their "prime" and that will bring inconsistency.

  12. #26
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    Re: If the Reds had a bullpen.........

    Bad losses
    4/9 Diamondbacks rally against Arroyo for 1 each in 6,7 then beat Reds 3-2 with run off Saarlos in 8th http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=270409129
    4/18 Houston series http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=270418117
    4/19 Houston again http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=270419117
    4/25 St. Louis- darn 8th http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=270425124
    5/3 Houston -darn 8th http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=270503118
    5/7 Houston- darn 8th http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=270507117
    5/8 Houston- darn 7th http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=270508117
    5/13 LA- darn 8th http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=270513119
    5/22 Nationals- darn 7,8 http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=270522117
    5/25 Pirates- giving up 8 in the 10th is never a good thing http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=270525117
    6/3 Colorado- You would think an 8-2 lead would be safe http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=270603127
    6/9 Cleveland- darn 8th and 11th http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=270609117
    6/14 LAA- darn 7th though inherited runners never help http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=270614117
    6/20 Oakland- oh well but the pen didn't ph for Hamilton in 9th http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=270620111

    Pen hurts or starter does it himself
    4/8 4-3 after 7 Reds lose to Pirates 6-3
    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=270408117
    4/16 Pen gives up 7 as 4-3 game becomes 10-6 loss http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=270416117
    4/22 Pen gives up 5 in 9-3 loss to Philly http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=270419117
    4/26 Lohse blows own 4 run lead, bats go silent http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=270426124
    5/4 Colorado- Belisle gives up 4-2 lead, Reds lose in extras
    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=270504117
    5/5 Colorado- those 4 runs the pen give up prove to hurt, Reds lose 9-7
    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=270505117
    5/23 Nats http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=270523117
    5/27 Pirates- Hard to fault the pen when the starter doesn't get an out but 3th in 8 kill a rally http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=270527117
    6/5 St. Louis- Just 1 in the 9th to lose http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=270605124
    6/6 st Louis- If you use 2 relievers in an inning, best to do it before the started gives up the tying and go ahead homers http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playby...meId=270606124
    6/13 LAA- Angels pull away http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=270613117
    6/17 Rangers- 4 in the 9th never helps http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=270617117


    but don't forget the good- a few samples
    4/13 ChicagoReds pen hold Cubs scoreless for 5 innings as reds rally to beat Cubs
    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=270413116
    5/15 Weathers, Harang throw 1000 pitches in San Diego http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=270515125
    5/18 Cleveland 7 2/3 only 2 runs in relief of Lohse http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=270518105
    5/21 7inn 1 run as Reds rally on Nats http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=270521117
    Last edited by klw; 06-21-2007 at 12:40 PM.

  13. #27

    Re: If the Reds had a bullpen.........

    I totally agree with you with regards to the bullpen:

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=p-azBP1rXmY

  14. #28
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    Re: If the Reds had a bullpen.........

    Flip the starters record to 30-20, rather than 20-30 you get:

    38-35, 3.5 games back

    Flip the bullpen's record from 8-15 to 15-8 you get:

    35-38, 6.5 games back.

    Lament the bullpen all you want, but improvements need to be made on starting, batting, and fielding, and managing to see real improvement. Fixing the bullpen is putting a band aid on a gapping wound.

  15. #29
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    Re: If the Reds had a bullpen.........

    Quote Originally Posted by JLB5 View Post
    Flip the starters record to 30-20, rather than 20-30 you get:

    38-35, 3.5 games back

    Flip the bullpen's record from 8-15 to 15-8 you get:

    35-38, 6.5 games back.

    Lament the bullpen all you want, but improvements need to be made on starting, batting, and fielding, and managing to see real improvement. Fixing the bullpen is putting a band aid on a gapping wound.
    Arroyo is 2-8. Milton was 0-4. Those 2 along hurt us REALLY bad. Lohse's numbers are very similar to Belisle, but Belisle is 5-5 and Lohse is 3-9.

    Milton is gone (that helps) and Arroyo will get back to form. Harang struggled for awhile but he's doing better. I'm more concerned about middle relief.

    But you're right, we have other things that need to improve. Situational hitting, defense.


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