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Thread: Stubbs (scout comment at Midwest League All-star Game)

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    Member RedLegsToday's Avatar
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    Stubbs (scout comment at Midwest League All-star Game)

    This is from Kevin Goldstein's article about the All-star Game.

    The eighth overall pick in the draft last year, despite many teams having major concerns about his strikeout rate, Stubbs is batting just .253/.348/.369 with 73 whiffs in 249 at-bats. “I mean, you just look at him, and that’s a Rocco Baldelli body,” lamented one scout. “But he just has no bat speed.”

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    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Stubbs (scout comment at Midwest League All-star Game)

    Nothing a few supplements couldn't fix :

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    Puffy's Daddy Red Leader's Avatar
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    Re: Stubbs (scout comment at Midwest League All-star Game)

    I'm going to the Dragon's game tonight and have seats right behind the plate, so I'll get a good look at Stubbs, but having seen him a couple times already, I'm inclined to agree with that scout's take. Of course the last time I saw Stubbs play, he was facing a guy that was topping out at 85-86 and he hit the ball well. Hopefully West Michigan has someone going tonight that can bring the heat. I'd like to see him face someone that throws 93-94 so I can make a better judgement.
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    Re: Stubbs (scout comment at Midwest League All-star Game)

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Leader View Post
    Hopefully West Michigan has someone going tonight that can bring the heat. I'd like to see him face someone that throws 93-94 so I can make a better judgement.
    Well, it won't be Chris Cody, and he was the ace of the White Caps' staff. He gave Stubbs fits the last time they faced off.

    Five Whitecaps on the Move; Cody, Rainwater, Castro Sent to Lakeland

    June 20th, 2007

    COMSTOCK PARK, MI — The West Michigan Whitecaps, in conjunction with the Detroit Tigers, announced today a flurry of roster moves to begin the second half of the Midwest League season. LHP Chris Cody, RHP Josh Rainwater and RHP Angel Castro were transferred to Single-A Lakeland while RHP Jose Fragoso was sent to short-season Oneonta and catcher Jeff Kunkel moves to the disabled list.

    Filling the void in the Whitecaps roster will be RHP Matt O’Brien, LHP Ramon Garcia, RHP Derek Witt and LHP Zach Piccola. O’Brien and Witt spent the first half of the season with Lakeland while Garcia and Piccola were sent from extended spring training.

    Cody emerged as one of the top pitchers in the Midwest League with his 1.77 ERA while leading the league in the first half in strikeouts (92) and innings pitched (91.1). He was recently named to the MWL All-Star team.

    Rainwater put things together in his third stint at West Michigan, posting a 7-2 record with 2.32 ERA while switching between a reliever and starter making four starts and 12 appearances out of the bullpen.

    Castro made the jump from the Dominican Summer League to the Midwest League and became one of the Whitecaps’ most reliable starters, going 7-4 with a 3.01 ERA in 12 starts. Fragoso spent a brief time with the Whitecaps after being called up when RHP Phil Napolitan landed on the DL. In just six games, Fragoso went 0-2 with a 7.82 ERA in 12.2 innings.

    Kunkel is the first position player for the Whitecaps to lose this season as he heads to the DL retroactive to June 11. The former Michigan Wolverine hit .230 with two doubles, four RBIs and six runs scored in 29 games this season.

    O’Brien returns to West Michigan after going 0-3 with a 7.59 ERA in seven games (six starts) at Lakeland. He spent the tail end of the 2006 season with the Whitecaps, going 3-1 with a 2.25 ERA including a start and win in the playoffs.

    Witt is making his first appearance on a Whitecaps roster after being sent from Lakeland. He went 1-0 with a 4.17 ERA in 21 games out of the bullpen this season with the Flying Tigers.

    Garcia returns to the Whitecaps almost a year after his stellar 2006 season was cut short due to a shoulder injury that forced him to miss the rest of the season. The southpaw from Yamasa, D.R. went on the D.L. last year on June 28 and had surgery in the offseason to repair a bone spur in his left shoulder. Garcia was 7-2 with a 1.92 ERA, including two complete game shutouts in his 12 games with West Michigan and was selected as one of the Whitecaps three Midwest League All-Stars in 2006 before being shut down for the season.

    Piccola is in his second year of professional baseball and will be reunited with Whitecaps Manager Tom Brookens after pitching for him in Oneonta last year. The ninth round pick by the Tigers in 2006 went 1-7 with a 4.04 ERA in 14 appearances (13 starts) in 62.1 innings pitched with Oneonta. He is making his first appearance on a Whitecaps roster.

    The Whitecaps active roster remains at 24 with one player on the disabled list.

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    Re: Stubbs (scout comment at Midwest League All-star Game)

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Leader View Post
    I'm going to the Dragon's game tonight and have seats right behind the plate, so I'll get a good look at Stubbs, but having seen him a couple times already, I'm inclined to agree with that scout's take. Of course the last time I saw Stubbs play, he was facing a guy that was topping out at 85-86 and he hit the ball well. Hopefully West Michigan has someone going tonight that can bring the heat. I'd like to see him face someone that throws 93-94 so I can make a better judgement.
    Let us know how he did please!!

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    Score Early, Score Often gonelong's Avatar
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    Re: Stubbs (scout comment at Midwest League All-star Game)

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Leader View Post
    I'm going to the Dragon's game tonight and have seats right behind the plate, so I'll get a good look at Stubbs ...
    I have seen him 3 times now and have been completely and thoroughly unimpressed each time. If I had to make my call today, I'd be suprised if he makes a splash in AAA much less ever becomes an everyday OF in the bigs.

    GL

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    Re: Stubbs (scout comment at Midwest League All-star Game)

    Quote Originally Posted by RedLegsToday View Post
    “But he just has no bat speed.”
    He and Dane Sardina should start a pillow-fight league.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

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    Re: Stubbs (scout comment at Midwest League All-star Game)

    I wonder if this can be attributed in any part to his foot injury. I am sure it is hard to generate bat speed if you can't get your legs into your swing.
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    Re: Stubbs (scout comment at Midwest League All-star Game)

    Quote Originally Posted by DoogMinAmo View Post
    I wonder if this can be attributed in any part to his foot injury. I am sure it is hard to generate bat speed if you can't get your legs into your swing.
    IIRC, he's got turf toe. That's a lot different than "foot problems" and "getting your legs into your swing." While turf toe can be painful, really painful, I doubt that's what is causing his lack of bat speed.
    'When I'm not longer rapping, I want to open up an ice cream parlor and call myself Scoop Dogg.'
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    Re: Stubbs (scout comment at Midwest League All-star Game)

    It's amazing that a front office would pick a first-round choice deficient in such an obvious thing as bat speed.

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    Re: Stubbs (scout comment at Midwest League All-star Game)

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    It's amazing that a front office would pick a first-round choice deficient in such an obvious thing as bat speed.
    You aren't getting it. Stubbs's struggle I bet was completely expected from the FO, matter of fact, if it didn't happen, they would be outright shocked.

    He wasn't drafted for his bat. Something you will have to come to grips with.

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    Re: Stubbs (scout comment at Midwest League All-star Game)

    Quote Originally Posted by Aronchis View Post
    He wasn't drafted for his bat. Something you will have to come to grips with.
    He was drafted to be the next Damon Buford.

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    Re: Stubbs (scout comment at Midwest League All-star Game)

    Quote Originally Posted by Aronchis View Post
    You aren't getting it. Stubbs's struggle I bet was completely expected from the FO, matter of fact, if it didn't happen, they would be outright shocked.

    He wasn't drafted for his bat. Something you will have to come to grips with.
    Strange thing to me is that Stubbs wasn't supposed to be a reach at the #8 spot. Every predraft analysis I read had him as a consensus first-rounder, and probably as a top-10 or top-15 talent. I can't believe that he would make it that high if he was perceived as lacking bat speed.

    He wasn't drafted for his bat, agreed. But I have to believe they expected him to hit better than this!
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    Re: Stubbs (scout comment at Midwest League All-star Game)

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Strange thing to me is that Stubbs wasn't supposed to be a reach at the #8 spot. Every predraft analysis I read had him as a consensus first-rounder, and probably as a top-10 or top-15 talent. I can't believe that he would make it that high if he was perceived as lacking bat speed.
    That's what I remember, too. His ability to make contact was questioned, but it wasn't as stark as "can't hit a decent fastball." He's a good athlete, not weak at all. Have to figure it's something in his swing mechanics.
    Not all who wander are lost

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    Puffy's Daddy Red Leader's Avatar
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    Re: Stubbs (scout comment at Midwest League All-star Game)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chi-Town Red View Post
    Let us know how he did please!!
    Quote Originally Posted by IslandRed View Post
    That's what I remember, too. His ability to make contact was questioned, but it wasn't as stark as "can't hit a decent fastball." He's a good athlete, not weak at all. Have to figure it's something in his swing mechanics.
    Ok, I watched Stubbs last night from the 2nd row behind the plate w/ nobody in the front row. I don't think the bat speed is an issue. First inning he jerked a 91mph fastball to LF. Unfortunately it was right at the LF, but it was hit hard and he turned on it pretty quickly. I'm not saying he has the fastest bat in the world, but it's certainly not "slow."

    That still leaves "the problem." I see his problem as being two-fold. One, is his swing mechanics. I noticed he was dropping his hands a little at the back of his swing. This made his swing long, and that needs to be corrected ASAP. You can "get by" with minor mechanical flaws in Single A. You're a .180 hitter in AA with the same problem. The other problem I see is more concerning, to me at least. It appeared to me that Stubbs has absolutely no clue as to what pitchers are trying to do to him.

    1st AB: First pitch, fastball, taken, ball, outside. Second pitch, fastball, strike, lower outside corner. Third pitch, mistake pitch, fastball, right down broadway. Stubbs turned on it and lined it to the LFer. He swung at the best pitch in the AB.

    2nd AB: First pitch, fastball, strike looking, lower outside corner. Second pitch, curveball, middle-in. Third pitch, fastball, strike looking, middle-outside. He looked like he was looking breaking ball all the way and didn't even move when he got a fastball.

    3rd AB: First pitch, fastball, strike looking, lower outside corner. Second pitch, foul ball, curve, middle-in. Third pitch, fastball, outside corner, ball (barely missed). Fourth pitch, curveball, middle-in, ground ball out.

    This sequence repeated itself over and over again with him basically seeing the same pitches at the same times in each at bat. He went 0-3 with 2 BB's and 1 K in the game and didn't hit the ball hard in any AB. If you look at those 3 AB's above you'll notice that he got basically the same pitches in the same counts, in the same general locations in each AB. If the pitcher would have done that to a smart hitter, the hitter would have been waiting on those pitches starting in the 2nd AB. Stubbs was still just as clueless in the 3rd AB, acting like he wasn't sure which pitch was coming.

    So, I don't think it's bat speed so much as it is just general hitting smartness. I'm not sure if they watch video at that level or not, but someone should point it out to him that he saw the same pitches in 3 straight AB's and did nothing with any of the pitches (w/ the exception of the 1st AB line out). That shouldn't happen.


    Other thoughts on the game last night:

    1) I love Chris Heisey. He's just a grind it out gamer. I'm sure Wayne loves him as well. Chris can absolutely motor around the bases and he's a smart baserunner. Gets good jumps, knows when to risk and when not to, etc. Chris went 4-4 last night. I don't see him having an All-Star ceiling, but I could see him being a fan favorite in the Ryan Freel mold if he gets to the big league team.

    2) Juan Francisco. Dear God. He didn't start the game, but came up as a PH in the 9th. Dude has Ryan Howard power and I'm not joking. I was watching Stubbs' bat speed all night and then this kid came up. I can't remember too many players having the bat speed Francisco has. He absolutely crushed a 93 mph fastball on the inside half. It went a good 420 feet. Absolute blast.

    3) Justin Turner. Like Heisey, I like Turner. He's not flashy, but he makes plays. He had one AB last night that wasn't a good one, struck out on a check swing on a high fastball and the guy behind me said "It's been awhile since I've seen Turner have a bad AB." I believe that.

    4) Valaika. Another good offensive player and he made several good plays at SS. There weren't any balls hit to show me what kind of range he has but he did well charging the ball on a slow chopper and also made a great short hop play and throw going to his glove side. Looked good at the plate as per usual.

    5) Jordan Smith. Wasn't that impressed. Maybe it was an off night for him. He can run the fastball up to 94, but mostly sits around 88-89. His slider was hitting the same speed all night, 82. He got behind hitters last night and fed them fastballs that were promptly destroyed.

    6) Pedro Viola. This kid has good stuff with movement. He's only hitting low 90's, but his fastball has real good late movement.

    7) Mateo and Terrell Young: Both throw very hard, mid 90's, but both throw pretty straight and don't have very good offspeed stuff to keep hitters honest. I'm surprised they don't get hit hard pretty much all the time. Just wait for the fastball and hit it.
    Last edited by Red Leader; 06-22-2007 at 09:13 AM.
    'When I'm not longer rapping, I want to open up an ice cream parlor and call myself Scoop Dogg.'
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