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Thread: Jay Bruce CF or RF?

  1. #16
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    Re: Jay Bruce CF or RF?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Hamilton is actually a slightly below average CF in terms of range.
    I don't know where the Reds look for a CF if they don't want to use Bruce or Hamilton there, but if Bruce comes onto the scene and hits like he has hit and Hamilton continues to post an OPS over .800, which there is no reason why he shouldnt, then put Chris Dickerson out there in CF. He wont hit a ton, but he will catch everything in CF.
    Yup, if you really want to improve the outfield, deal off the current outfield for young pitching and bring up Dickerson/Bruce next year. That will solve the range problems though the offense will probably take a dive for a year. But how much better it makes the pitching with the improved defense is the question(also with the arms aquired).
    Last edited by Aronchis; 07-05-2007 at 07:12 PM.

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  3. #17
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce CF or RF?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Hamilton is actually a slightly below average CF in terms of range.
    I don't know where the Reds look for a CF if they don't want to use Bruce or Hamilton there, but if Bruce comes onto the scene and hits like he has hit and Hamilton continues to post an OPS over .800, which there is no reason why he shouldnt, then put Chris Dickerson out there in CF. He wont hit a ton, but he will catch everything in CF.
    Actually Hamilton is slightly better than avg.

    2007:

    His RF - 2.43
    Lg RF - 2.39

    Of course his Right Field #'s are dramatically better.

    His RF - 3.11
    Lg RF - 2.20
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  4. #18
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    Re: Jay Bruce CF or RF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Actually Hamilton is slightly better than avg.

    2007:

    His RF - 2.43
    Lg RF - 2.39

    Of course his Right Field #'s are dramatically better.

    His RF - 3.11
    Lg RF - 2.20
    range factor is a very poor way of looking at defense. He may get a lot more fly balls in the outfield than other guys, therefore his range factor will be higher.

    David Gassko wrote this article for The Hardball Times on June 14th and at the bottom is has a spreadsheet for every player for each position. In CF Ryan Freel has 'saved 6 more runs' than Josh Hamilton has in CF this year. Freel rates as +3 and Hamilton rates as -3. He is actually rated at -1, -2 and -3 at each outfield position.

  5. #19
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce CF or RF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aronchis View Post
    Yup, if you really want to improve the outfield, deal off the current outfield for young pitching and bring up Dickerson/Bruce next year. That will solve the range problems though the offense will probably take a dive for a year. But how much better it makes the pitching with the improved defense is the question.
    It would make them a great deal better IMO. They are in the upper 3rd of the league in allowing HR's (6th Best in the NL) and Walks (3rd Best in the NL). The main part of this staffs issues are that they give up way too many hits, don't K enough (especially the pen) and are let down by defensive issues.

    Part of those issues are the range factor. Few guys on this field have avg. range or above.

    The exceptions are BP, Hammy, Freel, Hopper and Ross.

    Gonzo is slightly below avg as is EEE

    Dunn, Griffey, Hatteberg, Conine, Valentin, Castro are all well below.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  6. #20
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    Re: Jay Bruce CF or RF?

    Dunn in left, Bruce in center, and Hambone in right if Griffey retire or is traded.
    Most Vottomatic Player

  7. #21
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce CF or RF?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    range factor is a very poor way of looking at defense. He may get a lot more fly balls in the outfield than other guys, therefore his range factor will be higher.

    David Gassko wrote this article for The Hardball Times on June 14th and at the bottom is has a spreadsheet for every player for each position. In CF Ryan Freel has 'saved 6 more runs' than Josh Hamilton has in CF this year. Freel rates as +3 and Hamilton rates as -3. He is actually rated at -1, -2 and -3 at each outfield position.
    Well coincidentally Freel is far superior in RF than most anyone playing CF due to his pure speed. If Freel didn't have bad jumps, take bad angles and make more errors he would be the answer full time if his body could take it.

    However how that guy came to that conclusion is beyond me, it only takes a ballgame of each to see who the better CF is IMHO. Again Freel has the superior range but he cannot compete with Hamilton who is far superior in every other way, and he is still above avg in CF.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  8. #22
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce CF or RF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Well coincidentally Freel is far superior in RF than most anyone playing CF due to his pure speed. If Freel didn't have bad jumps, take bad angles and make more errors he would be the answer full time if his body could take it.

    However how that guy came to that conclusion is beyond me, it only takes a ballgame of each to see who the better CF is IMHO. Again Freel has the superior range but he cannot compete with Hamilton who is far superior in every other way, and he is still above avg in CF.
    Freel takes bad routes and gets bad jumps, but still gets to a lot more baseballs.

  9. #23
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce CF or RF?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Freel takes bad routes and gets bad jumps, but still gets to a lot more baseballs.
    Yeah I suppose that's so, but he also get's to more OF's if ya know what I mean.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  10. #24
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce CF or RF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Yeah I suppose that's so, but he also get's to more OF's if ya know what I mean.
    He needs a bell on him
    Go Gators!

  11. #25
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    Re: Jay Bruce CF or RF?

    I think that Hamilton will be a suitable/above average CF in the near future. The guy has only played what, 15 games, in the past 4 years? I think that his routes to balls, and every other aspect of defense will only get better with the more games that he plays. That being said, he will be a tremendous RF if that's where his future is. gotta love that arm

  12. #26
    So Long Uncle Joe BoydsOfSummer's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce CF or RF?

    Milton needs to toss more innings. I'll have a better read on flycatcher ability then.

    I know y'all had forgotten, I just thought I'd remind ya that it could be worse.
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  13. #27
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce CF or RF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    I think it should be, Hamilton CF, Bruce RF and a Hammer RH Bat in LF.
    You can have your hammer RH bat in LF (will Frazier suffice?), so long as the Reds edge out the Nationals in the Alvarez (LH 3B) sweepstakes.

  14. #28
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    Re: Jay Bruce CF or RF?

    Quote Originally Posted by degenerate10 View Post
    Dunn in left, Bruce in center, and Hambone in right if Griffey retire or is traded.
    sounds good

  15. #29
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    Re: Jay Bruce CF or RF?

    You're assuming Dunn is not traded for 2 40- year old relievers at the trading deadline.

  16. #30
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce CF or RF?

    What are the odds Bruce gets promoted by Aug 4 (the date I just bought Lookouts tickets for)....anyone???


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