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Thread: Reds Midseason Prospect Assessment

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    Reds Midseason Prospect Assessment

    As we approach the All Star Break, I thought I would offer a midyear assessment of the Reds farm system and the prospects to watch going forward. I provided both a ranking system as well as a grade assigned to each prospect. The criteria is a combination both of ceiling as well as results to date. So while a Drew Stubbs may have a higher ceiling, Justin Turner's performance thus far merits him a slightly higher ranking.

    GRADE A PROSPECTS

    1. Jay Bruce OF 20 AA

    One of the very best prospects in all of the game, Bruce looks to be the Reds #3 hitter and starting RF for many, many years. ETA: late 2008

    2. Joey Votto 1B/OF AAA

    Votto has done nothing but perform, and will be a Reds regular by the end of the month, as soon as Krivsky can find a taker for Hattenine. ETA: Any day

    3. Johnny Cueto 21 AA

    With Homer in the majors, Cueto takes the reigns as the organization's top pitching prospect. With his stunning debut in AA (1-0, 0.69 ERA, 19K's in 13 IP) every outing he has from here on out will be under the microscope. Hopefully he pairs with Bailey to fill out the rotation for years to come. ETA: late 2008

    GRADE B PROSPECTS

    4. Travis Wood 20 LHP A+

    Coming off injury, Wood ranks high as the organization's sole premier left handed pitching prospect. He has been very inconsistent since returning, yet remains very young for his level. ETA: 2010

    5. Sean Watson 21 RHP A+

    Watson has had some shaky outings since being promoted from Dayton, yet remains as the prize thus far from 2006's draft class. He should get back on track as he adjusts to the competition, and with a strong finish to the year could even start 2008 at AA. ETA: late 2009/early 2010

    6. Juan Francisco 20 3B/OF A

    Francisco is a very intriguing prospect, yet he remains extremely raw. He has perhaps the best power of anyone in the low level minors, yet his defense and his plate discipline leave alot to be desired. He should move to a corner OF spot in the next year. ETA: 2010/2011

    7. Chris Valaika 21 INF A+

    Valaika has much better discipline and defense than Francisco, and plays a more premium position, yet lacks Francisco's upside. He will most likely move to either 2B or 3B in the next year, but has done nothing but perform since being taken in the 3rd round of last year's draft, thus earning a promotion this week to Sarasota. ETA: 2010

    8. Devin Mesoraco 18 C Rookie

    Mesoraco's quick signing after the draft will hopefully get him the seasoning he needs to adjust to professional ball. He ranks this high because of his high upside potential as an athletic catcher with a bat. He is the farthest from the majors of anyone on this list, yet remains one of the most interesting players to watch, especially as the organization's only true catching prospect. ETA: 2011 or beyond

    9. Todd Frazier 21 3B/OF (still unsigned)

    Frazier is the only unsigned player to make the list, although rumor has it that he won't be unsigned for long. He probably will be moved quickly to either 3B or a corner OF spot, but with his bat and athleticism it should not be a tough adjustment. Look for him to start in Dayton. ETA: (still unsigned)

    10. Daryl Thompson 21 RHP A+

    The only prospect the Reds received in The Trade, Thompson has been very solid since coming over to the Reds. Once heralded as a young Dontrelle Willis, Thompson has already had Tommy John surgery. He is the third member of the trio of pitching prospects now in Sarasota (along with Wood and Watson). ETA: 2010

    GRADE C PROSPECTS

    11. Sam LeCure 22 RHP AA
    12. Carlos Fisher 24 RHP AA
    13. Richie Gardner 25 RHP AAA
    14. Justin Turner 22 2B A
    15. Rafael Gonzalez 21 RHP A
    16. Calvin Medlock 24 RHP AAA
    17. Chris Dickerson 25 OF AAA

    OTHERS TO WATCH

    18. Drew Stubbs 22 CF A
    19. Adam Rosales 24 INF AA
    20. Tyler Pelland RHP 23 AA
    21. Carlos Guevara 25 RHP AA
    22. Chris Heisey 22 OF A
    23. Neftali Soto 18 SS Rookie
    24. Camilo Vazquez 23 LHP AA
    25. Tzu Kai-Chiu 19 LHP Rookie
    26. Josh Ravin 19 RHP Rookie
    27. Kyle Lotzkar 19 RHP (still unsigned)
    28. Josh Roenicke 21 RHP AA
    29. Zack Cozart 21 SS A
    30. Justin Reed 19 OF Rookie
    31. Phil Valiquette 20 RHP Rookie
    32. Craig Tatum 24 C AA
    33. Pedro Viola 24 LHP A+
    34. Brandon Waring 21 3B Rookie
    35. Daniel Dorn 22 OF A+
    Last edited by Benihana; 07-05-2007 at 03:41 PM.
    Go BLUE!!!

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    Re: Reds Midseason Prospect Assessment

    nice thought but what makes you a "qualified" talent evaluator?

    please save this stuff for the pros....

    thank you.

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    Re: Reds Midseason Prospect Assessment

    Quote Originally Posted by holster10 View Post
    nice thought but what makes you a "qualified" talent evaluator?

    please save this stuff for the pros....

    thank you.
    Is this a joke? Because otherwise, it couldn't be ruder or more unwelcome.

    Benihana, thanks for the read and the effort put into same. Much appreciated.
    Last edited by membengal; 07-05-2007 at 03:49 PM.

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    Puffy's Daddy Red Leader's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Midseason Prospect Assessment

    Quote Originally Posted by holster10 View Post
    nice thought but what makes you a "qualified" talent evaluator?

    please save this stuff for the pros....

    thank you.
    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    Is this a joke? Because otherwise, it couldn't be ruder or more unwelcome.
    I agree.

    holster, please refrain from further comments like this. In the future, if you aren't interested in hearing someone's opinion of our prospects, then please refrain from posting stuff like this, or opening the thread at all. In addition, if you only want to hear the opinions of a "qualified" talent evaluator, then this isn't the place for you.

    Benihana, I appreciate your taking the time to post this.
    Last edited by Red Leader; 07-05-2007 at 03:56 PM.
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    Score Early, Score Often gonelong's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Midseason Prospect Assessment

    Quote Originally Posted by holster10 View Post
    nice thought but what makes you a "qualified" talent evaluator?
    What makes anyone a "qualified" talent evaluator?

    More often than not the "pros" don't follow the Reds or Reds prospects anywhere near as closely as many folks on this forum. I'll take my chances with what we have here (collectivly) over most publications and most certainly over any list the organization would provide.

    Nice put together Benihana.

    GL

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    Re: Reds Midseason Prospect Assessment

    Quote Originally Posted by holster10 View Post
    nice thought but what makes you a "qualified" talent evaluator?

    please save this stuff for the pros....

    thank you.


    I enjoyed your list Benihana, and I agreed with alot of it. Apparently you go by thinking, as do I, that Stubbs are Dickerson are very similar prospects right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

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    Re: Reds Midseason Prospect Assessment

    Thanks for the list Benihana, although I disagree with you on Dickerson, he's still behind Dorn, Heisey and Rosalas in my book, but he is at a higher level and I can see how you placed him there.

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    Re: Reds Midseason Prospect Assessment

    Benihana, what makes Valaika have much better discipline than Francisco? They had ISO Discipline numbers of .043 and .046 while in Dayton. Valaika struck out 13 fewer times in 20 less at bats, but still was striking out at a good rate while being 2 years older. Just wondering if you saw something in person, or where the thought process was on that one.

    Also, Daryl Thompson did not have TJ surgery, he had his shoulder done.

    I think you underrate Craig Tatum a whole lot as well. His plate discipline is not so good, but he can hit the ball.

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    Re: Reds Midseason Prospect Assessment

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Benihana, what makes Valaika have much better discipline than Francisco? They had ISO Discipline numbers of .043 and .046 while in Dayton. Valaika struck out 13 fewer times in 20 less at bats, but still was striking out at a good rate while being 2 years older. Just wondering if you saw something in person, or where the thought process was on that one.

    Also, Daryl Thompson did not have TJ surgery, he had his shoulder done.

    I think you underrate Craig Tatum a whole lot as well. His plate discipline is not so good, but he can hit the ball.
    Valaika and Francisco also have the same amount of walks (17).
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

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    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Midseason Prospect Assessment

    What about Keppinger, doesn't he rate as a prospect?

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    Re: Reds Midseason Prospect Assessment

    Good post but my uninformed take is that Calvin Medlock, Josh Roenicke, Phil Valiquette, Craig Tatum, & Daniel Dorn should all be higher on the list.

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    Re: Reds Midseason Prospect Assessment

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    What about Keppinger, doesn't he rate as a prospect?
    Not anymore he doesn't. Too old, and too many chances with a big club.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

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    Re: Reds Midseason Prospect Assessment

    What about Keppinger, doesn't he rate as a prospect?
    Not anymore he doesn't. Too old, and too many chances with a big club.
    "Too old" I might buy, but "too many chances with a big club" makes me squirm a bit. His two most recent chances were more "cups of coffee" than legitimate chances, and the one time he had more than 100 ABs he hit .284; seems harsh to downgrade a guy for that.

    He's a guy in his mid- (okay, late-mid) 20s who's never had a real shot in the majors but has stung the ball everywhere in the minors. His age is a negative, but lots of guys on the list have negatives. If he could only fill in at short, he'd be a godsend to this team. If a "prospect" is a guy who has a good chance of contributing to the major league team in the future, to me he's a "prospect".
    Last edited by chicoruiz; 07-05-2007 at 05:30 PM.
    "In baseball, you don't know nothin'"...Yogi Berra

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    Re: Reds Midseason Prospect Assessment

    Using that system:
    1.Bruce,Votto,Cueto: This is pretty easy. After Cueto showed it was more mental than physical with his high A slump, he became a grade A prospect. The other 2 were already there.
    2.Wood,Francisco,Watson are the next grouping. Wood gets a asterisk from me because of his muscle inflammation which can be pain to fully get rid of in a few weeks thus effecting performance over a long duration. But his stuff has remained good which hopefully supports little else wrong. Francisco and Watson are raw talents with big physical ceilings.
    3.The next group is where the dropoff begins. Now we have entered the realm of new draft picks and interesting prospects like Rosales,Fisher or Dickerson. Somebody who is older, but may break out soon or is still struggling to put it together like Lecure, but might.
    4.These are the fluff variety of prospects or to young/low in the organization. Stubbs is looking awfully fluff right now, but he may move up. Val is a pitcher who is to low in the organization but may move up if he performs well next year. Gonzo on the otherhand has not performed well in Dayton and may need to be reevaluated.

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    Re: Reds Midseason Prospect Assessment

    Benihana, good list. These things are always interesting to ponder and debate about. Like Reds44, I see Dickerson and Stubbs as very similar at this point, and I like the fact you've got Dickerson ahead of Stubbs. I hope Stubbs really emerges later on, but right now he's not earned being ahead of Dickerson because whenever anyone projects Stubbs' future, what they come up with is something pretty close to what Dickerson is doing now. D is 25, at AAA, Stubbs going on 23 at low A ball, so they're pretty much on the same pace. Actually I think Dickerson is starting to get really interesting. Going in to tonight he was putting up a .792 OPS at Louisville, .835 in June, over 1 for these few games in July. He's coming on strong, just as he did in the latter half of last season at Chattanooga. Tatum and Dorn are two other guys I'd bump up the list, both based on their ability to hit the ball hard--good extra base numbers, good RBI numbers, particularly for Dorn. I know people sneer at RBI's but anybody who can drive in a run every 5 times to the plate knows how to make contact--and that does translate into runs, even if there is really no such thing as clutch hitting.


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