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Thread: When will the firesale begin?

  1. #1
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    When will the firesale begin?

    My fellow Reds fans, I write this today to ask the question,when will the firesale begin? In an earlier post I propposed a couple of changes that the Reds should consider making. I have recently rethought one of my positons. The Reds should keep Junior. His drive for 600 is the only thing that is going to bring fans out to the stadium for rest of the year. But as for the rest of the team, what are we waiting for? Here are three ideas that I think might work:

    1) Is it not time to bring up Joey Votto yet? Scott Hatteberg has been a really nice fill in for the past couple of years but is he really the future? Votto has been playing really well this year and in my estimation is the future at first for the Reds. Any team looking for a good veteran hitter would be a perfect trade partner. You could platoon Votto and Conine for the rest of the year, making Joey feel no pressure at all, then next year bring him on full time.

    2) It's time to part ways with Adam Dunn. I know that he has "stepped up" his game this year, but what does that mean? Does that mean that he is going to strike out 10 times less than last year? I was at the game yesterday and they had a stat about him. He is the only player in Reds history to hit 40 HRs, 100 RBI, 100 Runs Scored, and 100 Walks, or something like that. And I thought to myself, "They should add 100 Ks to the list as well. I think that Adam Dunn could be great, but there is no one in this system who is pushing him to be great. Why are we happy with 40 and 100? Shouldn't we be expecting 50 and 120? Not only do I fault management for not expecting more but I also fault Dunn for not pushing himself to be better.
    So the time is now to trade him. We cannot pick up his 13m option next year. And even if we do that I believe that he has a no trade clause or a list of teams that he can only be traded to. Let's trade him for a solid veteran bullpen pitcher (not over-the-hill:Stanton) and a solid middle infield prospect.

    3) Let's not give up on our young pitchers. I know that Bailey, Belisle, McBeth, Salmon, Gosling, Coffey, and Coulangus have all underpreformed this year, but we can't give up on them. I am not giving them the excuse not to be able to get outs but I can deal with it more than say maybe Ricky Stone, Gary Majewski, or David Weathers. Let them get through this year, no matter how tough it is, and let them get that experience.
    We could trade Kyle Loshe and try to get some pitching prospect or even a little cash, bring up Phil Dumatrait, let him get some innings in and see where our rotation can be next year.

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  3. #2
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    Re: Anytime now

    K's dont matter...its called On Base Percentage Dunn's is really good. As is his OPS. Trading Dunn would be a sin.

    I agree we need to trade hatteberg along with conine, valentin, stanton, weathers, and lohse. I dont care if trading any of these players hurt our bench or bullpen for this year. It's time for the young talent to show if they can pitch or not.
    Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball - Jacques Barzun

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    Re: Anytime now

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrassOH View Post
    Why are we happy with 40 and 100? Shouldn't we be expecting 50 and 120? Not only do I fault management for not expecting more but I also fault Dunn for not pushing himself to be better.
    Wow, tough crowd. I suppose if he does start hitting 50 HRs and driving in 120, then we, along with Reds management, should expect him to start hitting 60 HRs and driving in 150? Easier said than done...

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    Re: Anytime now

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwball View Post
    Wow, tough crowd. I suppose if he does start hitting 50 HRs and driving in 120, then we, along with Reds management, should expect him to start hitting 60 HRs and driving in 150? Easier said than done...
    And if he does go 60 HRs with 150 rbis we should expect him to start hitting 70 and driving in 180 runs
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    Re: Anytime now

    You took the words right out of my mouth... pretty much..

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    Re: Anytime now

    I don't think we'll see a huge fire sale although it's extremely likely that some players will be moved in the next week or so.

    1) I don't have a preference regarding Votto. I would guess that he'll come up at some point this year even though it may be September. Hatteburg is indeed holding down 1B until a younger guy is ready yet I believe he has been a better all-around player (and cheaper, to boot) than Casey was. I'm glad he's here but I'm sure he'll be trade bait soon.

    2) Dunn's money along with his so-so defense along with 200 K's/year make it a little more difficult to get another team to pick him up. (A lot of people here bash Dunn and yell for him to be traded but the tone is like saying to another team, "Here, take a lousy underperforming player off our hands and pay him $13 million a year.") Still, if the Reds could get a good starting pitcher or at least a very good middle reliever as part of a package, that might be a good thing.

    3) In my opinion, if there's a fire sale, it will be primarily because of the young pitchers. Our bullpen is horrendous and has cost us way too many wins this year. I'm all for patience with them and some might develop into very productive pitchers. Still, I'd prefer to see Krivsky bring in some arms that have proven they can hold a lead.

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    Re: Anytime now

    If there is not a fire sale I will be very dissappointed. For the team to move forward and improve they have to change the style of play and the way this team is constucted.
    I was in the ORG once, best 6 months of my life.

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    Re: Anytime now

    Quote Originally Posted by mound_patrol View Post
    K's dont matter...its called On Base Percentage Dunn's is really good. As is his OPS. Trading Dunn would be a sin.

    I agree we need to trade hatteberg along with conine, valentin, stanton, weathers, and lohse. I dont care if trading any of these players hurt our bench or bullpen for this year. It's time for the young talent to show if they can pitch or not.
    K's don't matter? If there's a runner on second with 0 outs and Dunn strikes out your not the least bit upset that he didn't move the runner over so a sac fly or groundout or wild pitch or passed ball or balk or a steal of home score him? Ok....



    If the bases are empty and he K's it really doesn't matter too much but if there is a runner or runners on base and less than two outs and he K's that's does matter.

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    Re: Anytime now

    Quote Originally Posted by BearcatShane View Post
    K's don't matter? If there's a runner on second with 0 outs and Dunn strikes out your not the least bit upset that he didn't move the runner over so a sac fly or groundout or wild pitch or passed ball or balk or a steal of home score him? Ok....



    If the bases are empty and he K's it really doesn't matter too much but if there is a runner or runners on base and less than two outs and he K's that's does matter.
    In the grand scheme of things... an out is an out, no matter how you make it.

  11. #10
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    Re: Anytime now

    Quote Originally Posted by BearcatShane View Post
    K's don't matter? If there's a runner on second with 0 outs and Dunn strikes out your not the least bit upset that he didn't move the runner over so a sac fly or groundout or wild pitch or passed ball or balk or a steal of home score him? Ok....



    If the bases are empty and he K's it really doesn't matter too much but if there is a runner or runners on base and less than two outs and he K's that's does matter.
    Sure it matters but why does it matter that its a strikeout versus a weak grounder or a popup?

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    Re: Anytime now

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    Sure it matters but why does it matter that its a strikeout versus a weak grounder or a popup?
    Because a weak ground ball will move the runner over. Is a grounder better than a strikeout all the time? No. But if he could move the runner over with a ground ball just 10% more of the time opposed to striking out in that situation it would help out the team.

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    Re: Anytime now

    If we want to look at the grand scheme of things then Ks really do matter. BearcatShane made a great point by giving us some scenarios when getting a K DOES matter. If you strike out with a runner on, you can neither move the runner over or put the fielder in a spot to make a play. What about if you have runners in scoring position? I guess it doesn't matter if he strikes out then because according to OSUmed2010 Dunn striking out is the same as getting a sac fly.
    Speaking of sac flies. I looked at his stats from this season back to 2004. He only has 7! SEVEN! Compare that to 27 from Jason Bay and 17 from Pat Burrell. And that's just guys who are comparable to Dunn.
    Look I'm not saying that 40 and 100 aren't good numbers. But just imagine if he actually learned how to hit a sac and how to not strike out with runners in scoring position, he could add at least 20 RBI to his season total. I guess I just see him as not being the best that he can be. To me he should be able to hit .280-.290, 45-50, 120-130. I may be wrong. I might be deceived. Maybe all he will be able to do his whole career is hit HR or K. But I think he is better than he is playing.
    To everyone that posted, "well if he hits 50/120 are you gonna ask for 60/150", that's just stupid. Let's be honest, if you think that Adam Dunn is playing to his full potential, then let me know. But if you think that he can be better, than please, don't make statements like you previously made.

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    Re: Anytime now

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    Sure it matters but why does it matter that its a strikeout versus a weak grounder or a popup?
    dear god are you serious???

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    Re: Anytime now

    Quote Originally Posted by BearcatShane View Post
    Because a weak ground ball will move the runner over. Is a grounder better than a strikeout all the time? No. But if he could move the runner over with a ground ball just 10% more of the time opposed to striking out in that situation it would help out the team.
    I'm talking about a ground ball that doesn't advance the runner.

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    Re: Anytime now

    Quote Originally Posted by jcmac3 View Post
    dear god are you serious???
    Yes. Why does the flavor of out matter if the runner doesn't advance?


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