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Thread: Futures Game

  1. #106
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Futures Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwball View Post
    OK? I'm still not seeing your point here. Yes LW (like most players) did better at home than he did on the road. But, like I said 3 times now, Jay Bruce will be playing his home games at GABP, a very hitter friendly ballpark like Coors. If Bruce is projected to be the next Larry Walker, then why shouldn't we expect him to OPS (and hit HRs, doubles, etc.) at the same clip at home - and therefore overall - as LW did?
    Because saying Coors and GABP are both hitters parks is like saying Johan Santana and Aaron Harang are both good pitchers.

    It is a true statement, but there are different levels of hitters parks and Coors is one of the biggest hitters park of all time. And pre-humidor Coors was ridiculous.

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  3. #107
    Boom Goes the Dynamite Screwball's Avatar
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    Re: Futures Game

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Because saying Coors and GABP are both hitters parks is like saying Johan Santana and Aaron Harang are both good pitchers.

    It is a true statement, but there are different levels of hitters parks and Coors is one of the biggest hitters park of all time. And pre-humidor Coors was ridiculous.
    To suggest Coors is a much better hitters' park than GABP is just flat out wrong. GABP has a higher Park Factor (1.197, 2nd in MLB) than Coors Field (1.136, 4th in MLB) does. GABP actually gives up more home runs than Coors (1.559 to 1.160). If anything, it's actually more advantageous for a hitter to play in GABP than anywhere else (save Fenway Park).

    GABP currently is very much like pre-humidor Coors. The HR rate is astounding.
    Last edited by Screwball; 07-08-2007 at 10:26 PM.

  4. #108
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Futures Game

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    Jay Bruce is going to be a perenial 1.000 OPS guy who belts 40-50 homers a year.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  5. #109
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Futures Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwball View Post
    To suggest Coors is a better hitters' park than GABP is just flat out wrong. GABP has a higher Park Factor (1.197, 2nd in MLB) than Coors Field (1.136, 4th in MLB) does. GABP actually gives up more home runs than Coors (1.559 to 1.160). If anything, it's actually more advantageous for a hitter to play in GABP than anywhere else (save Fenway Park).
    PRE-HUMIDOR!!!!

    Career BABIPs in Coors

    Walker: .385
    Bichette: .352
    Galarraga: .362
    Helton: .363

    If you can, measure what the park factor was before the humidor. It's a joke.

  6. #110
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    Re: Futures Game

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    Again, another well thought out response. Very nice.

    I forgot that it was against the rules to say anything positive about the Reds' prospects. My fault.

  7. #111
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Futures Game

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    Again, another well thought our response. Very nice.

    I forgot that it was against the rules to say anything positive about the Reds' prospects. My fault.
    It's just the hyperbole was off the charts.

  8. #112
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Futures Game

    Sorry OBM, I can't see either Votto or Bruce living up to your predictions. I just can't see Votto hitting .300 or Bruce ever OPSing over 1.000, especially Votto. There is also a difference between saying something positive, and predicting a guy will hit between 40-50 who you've seen play probably less then 10 times. Jay is one of the best hitting prospect in the game, but who knows how his numbers will translate in the bigs.

    Also, I don't see where you get that edabbs was trying to imply you can't so something positive about Reds prospects. His original post said he thinks you were being "alittle agressive" with your predictions and that you were putting him in Pujols/Vlad territory. He disagreed with it, as do I.
    Last edited by reds44; 07-08-2007 at 11:04 PM.

  9. #113
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    Re: Futures Game

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Sorry OBM, I can't see either Votto or Bruce living up to your predictions. I just can't see Votto hitting .300 or Bruce ever OPSing over 1.000, especially Votto. There is also a difference between saying something positive, and predicting a guy will hit between 40-50 who you've seen play probably less then 10 times. Jay is one of the best hitting prospect in the game, but who knows how his numbers will translate in the bigs.

    Also, I don't see where you get that edabbs was trying to imply you can't so something positive about Reds prospects. His original post said he thinks you were being "alittle agressive" with your predictions and that you were putting him in Pujols/Vlad territory. He disagreed with it, as do I.
    Maybe, maybe not. We don't know, nor ever know. Nobody would have thought Pujols would go ape on MLB after his very good year in low A ball.

    Dunn at this point hasn't been the 1.000OPS monster that most hoped. But that doesn't mean he hasn't been a good home grown product. I think we let history tell that story, not meaningless comparisons.

  10. #114
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Futures Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Aronchis View Post
    Maybe, maybe not. We don't know, nor ever know. Nobody would have thought Pujols would go ape on MLB after his very good year in low A ball.

    Dunn at this point hasn't been the 1.000OPS monster that most hoped. But that doesn't mean he hasn't been a good home grown product. I think we let history tell that story, not meaningless comparisons.
    I didn't say Dunn hasn't been a good home grown product, nor did I say if Votto doesn't hit .300 and Bruce doesn't OPS 1.000 they won't be good home grown products. If Votto hits .275 in the majors he'll put up around a .375 0BP and hit for good power numbers. I'd take that in a second, and be willing to pencil him at 1st base for however long he wants to be there. Id be thrilled with that. From what I have seen from him, I can't see him hitting .300 though.

    If Bruce can be Adam Dunn with less strikeouts and better numbers with RISP, he'd be a monster. He doesn't have the walk numbers of Dunn, but he is a better fielder and strikes out less.

    If Bruce were to post 1.000 OPS with 40-50 he'd be HOF good. It's not fair to put those kind of predictions on him.
    Last edited by reds44; 07-08-2007 at 11:23 PM.

  11. #115
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    Re: Futures Game

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Also, I don't see where you get that edabbs was trying to imply you can't so something positive about Reds prospects. His original post said he thinks you were being "alittle agressive" with your predictions and that you were putting him in Pujols/Vlad territory. He disagreed with it, as do I.
    I'm not referring to that. Everytime Doug or I say something positive about the Reds, someone butts in and tells us to not get too excited because so and so is too old, or doesn't walk enough, or someone from another organization is much better. It gets a little old.

  12. #116
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Futures Game

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    I'm not referring to that. Everytime Doug or I say something positive about the Reds, someone butts in and tells us to not get too excited because so and so is too old, or doesn't walk enough, or someone from another organization is much better. It gets a little old.
    Sean Watson was being hailed as the second coming.

    I (among others) tempered my enthusiasm due to the fact that he was a college guy in low A.

    He got the well deserved promotion and has been getting a little roughed up in High A.

    He is no longer the second coming.

    This is just an example, but it seems as if logic sometimes leaves the building when it comes to Cincy prospects. I'm sure that Bruce's K/BB rate would be brought up if he was a Cards prospect, for example.

  13. #117
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    Re: Futures Game

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Sean Watson was being hailed as the second coming.

    I (among others) tempered my enthusiasm due to the fact that he was a college guy in low A.

    He got the well deserved promotion and has been getting a little roughed up in High A.

    He is no longer the second coming.

    This is just an example, but it seems as if logic sometimes leaves the building when it comes to Cincy prospects. I'm sure that Bruce's K/BB rate would be brought up if he was a Cards prospect, for example.
    Then Watson throws a gem and is the second coming again. Pujols only walked 38 times in low A at 20(granted, "supposedly" lol). If you can't see Bruce's improvements lately, shame on you. The point is, he is doing stuff at a age that "suggests" superstar. Similiar with Upton. While Maybin after a good 2 month start, has falling by the wayside the last 5 weeks. Maybe Maybin has a better career than Bruce and Upton, his current numbers don't suggest it.

  14. #118
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    Re: Futures Game

    BTW, I just watched a Joey Votto interview with MLB.com. When they asked Joey about his workouts routines, he mentioned that he shows up early at the park each day and fishes out one of the groundscrew members (who just happens to be a lefty) to work on his hitting against lefties. That's awesome. I can't wait to see this kid destroying pitching in Cincy. Also, for those folks who thought Casey was the nicest guy in the world, he may have some competition in Joey Votto. He seems like a top notch person.

  15. #119
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    Re: Futures Game

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    BTW, I just watched a Joey Votto interview with MLB.com. When they asked Joey about his workouts routines, he mentioned that he shows up early at the park each day and fishes out one of the groundscrew members (who just happens to be a lefty) to work on his hitting against lefties. That's awesome. I can't wait to see this kid destroying pitching in Cincy. Also, for those folks who thought Casey was the nicest guy in the world, he may have some competition in Joey Votto. He seems like a top notch person.
    Hey, nobody will ever be able to outhug Sean Casey, no matter how hard Joey tries

  16. #120
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Futures Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Aronchis View Post
    Hey, nobody will ever be able to outhug Sean Casey, no matter how hard Joey tries
    Not if we start a 'hug Joey Votto day' and have it once a week.


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