Should Reds Keep Dunn and Griffey?

[BucksandReds]

Over the course of this season I have gone from Dunn is going to have a monster year, to same old Dunn, to Dunn is good but not worth 13 million to Dunn just needs a long term contract at less that 13 million per season. At the same time after having thought about the exciement of passing 600 HRs in Cincy and maybe 660 2 years from now I think that we should keep Griffey too.

Ok say we sign a long term deal with Dunn for about 8-10 million per year for 5 years. If you don't think that a guy who brings in the kind of runs he does is worth that then I don't know what to say to you. Great hitters make 15-25 million per year. Adam Dunn is not a great hitter. That doesn't mean that he does not have alot of value on this team. If not then pick up his option and either trade him for value next July or lose him to free agency and get a high vale compensentory pick in the draft. EIther way it does not appear that anyone is interested in giving us anything good this year. Don't just give him away.

Griffey is going to sell some tickets this August and September because everyone is going to want to watch him break 600. He is still our big ticket, he is producing, he still hustles (did you see the double play breaking slide today?), he isn't a liability imo in the outfield and he gives just a little credibility to this struggling team that other teams like KC, Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh and others don't have. It's going to be alot of fun for all fans to watch him break 600 and hopefully climb into the top 4 all time in HRS in a couple of years.

What I would do if I were Krivsky is bring up Votto and have him as my everyday 1st baseman with Conine and Hatteburg as still very cheap and very good pinch hitters that can also play in the field. I then spend my money if the offseason to get proven veteren (but not OLD) bullpen help. I'm not talking about signing a 40 year old to a 2 million dollar contract. I'm talking about signing a 28-30 year old for 5 million.

I think that a scenaio like this is much more likely because Castellini wants to win today rather than 2 years from now. We are not as bad as the record. The bullpen needs to mature and get some help. That can happen in 1 year.

[Degenerate39]

Absolutely keep Dunn and Griffey. Sign Dunn long term and keep Griff until Bruce is ready for the majors if Griffey is even around then. Bring up Votto trade Hatte keep Conine for the rest of the year as a bench player.

[jimbo]

Absolutely keep Dunn and Griffey. Sign Dunn long term and keep Griff until Bruce is ready for the majors if Griffey is even around then. Bring up Votto trade Hatte keep Conine for the rest of the year as a bench player.

So basically keep with the status quo?

[HokieRed]

As of right now, Milwaukee is sliding. If you're like me and think the Cubs are really likely to win the division, the Reds are now 8.5 games behind. Do you sell at 8.5 out early in July? I know any thought of contention seems ridiculous, but this team is at its strongest right now--stands to get even better with Bray about ready--and the division is horrible. Stranger things have happened.

[He got it!]

Yes.

[Degenerate39]

So basically keep with the status quo?

Pretty much personally when I look at the Reds I don't see a bad team like they've been playing before Mac came in. If you would've told me that Griffey would have 23 home runs, Dunn would have 24, Harang would be 9-2, Hamilton would be a surprise, Phillips have an All-Star first half, Gonzo have double digit homers. I would've thought this was a first place team in the Central. But a lot of the guys that were suppose to produce didn't. Arroyo didn't win like he was suppose to, Edwin and Ross were suppose to be hitters, the pen was suppose to be better.

[Chi-Town Red]

the problem is Bruce is going to be ready very,very soon

[He got it!]

Good point Chi - Town, it is somewhat of a dilema. Too bad the Reds don't have the same problem in their bullpen. It seems like as long as I have been a Reds fan there has been 5 great OF's for 3 spots and 1 great RP for 6 spots. Hmmmm.

[jimbo]

Pretty much personally when I look at the Reds I don't see a bad team like they've been playing before Mac came in. If you would've told me that Griffey would have 23 home runs, Dunn would have 24, Harang would be 9-2, Hamilton would be a surprise, Phillips have an All-Star first half, Gonzo have double digit homers. I would've thought this was a first place team in the Central. But a lot of the guys that were suppose to produce didn't. Arroyo didn't win like he was suppose to, Edwin and Ross were suppose to be hitters, the pen was suppose to be better.

I can't argue with that, you make some good points. They may not be as bad as they have shown, but in my opinion they are still not a very good team though. There is a lot of inconsistancy at the 3-5 spots in the rotation, the bullpen is still relatively inexperienced and has holes, there is still not a true leadoff type hitter or even a two-hole hitter for that matter, and the outfield is still below average defensively. I'd also like to see some more professional type of hitters so they do not have to rely on the home run so much. In order to solve those issues, something has to change which means people will have to be traded. As much as I like Dunn and Griffey, they are the biggest bargaining chips (besides Weathers) the organization has.

Keeping them and considering them a long-term solution is just staying with the status quo in my opinion, and that hasn't been working at all.

[nate]

If you keep them, get a league average starter, a decent closer and let 'em play.

If you trade them, make sure you get (whether through the trade or free agency) a #1 or 2 starter, a couple of lights out BP dudes and a RH power bat. I don't have names off the top of my head but those are the "profiles" I'd look for.

[Degenerate39]

I can't argue with that, you make some good points. They may not be as bad as they have shown, but in my opinion they are still not a very good team though. There is a lot of inconsistancy at the 3-5 spots in the rotation, the bullpen is still relatively inexperienced and has holes, there is still not a true leadoff type hitter or even a two-hole hitter for that matter, and the outfield is still below average defensively. I'd also like to see some more professional type of hitters so they do not have to rely on the home run so much. In order to solve those issues, something has to change which means people will have to be traded. As much as I like Dunn and Griffey, they are the biggest bargaining chips (besides Weathers) the organization has.

Keeping them and considering them a long-term solution is just staying with the status quo in my opinion, and that hasn't been working at all.

You're not going to get a cheaper consistant power hitter than Dunn. I love Griffey to death but he'd be my choice of the two to go but really what are you going to get for a 37 year old man that has bad legs? You currently aren't going to get one of the key pieces the team needs. If you're going to trade anyone on the team those people would be (at least for me): Lohse, Hatte, Conine, Weathers, and possibly Freel. Maybe a package deal for a above average prospect?

[BucksandReds]

You're not going to get a cheaper consistant power hitter than Dunn. I love Griffey to death but he'd be my choice of the two to go but really what are you going to get for a 37 year old man that has bad legs? You currently aren't going to get one of the key pieces the team needs. If you're going to trade anyone on the team those people would be (at least for me): Lohse, Hatte, Conine, Weathers, and possibly Freel. Maybe a package deal for a above average prospect?

You dont think that Griffey hitting 600 and then maybe 660 is going to bring in millions of dollars, recogonition and appreciation by the people of Cincy? IMHO if you trade Griffey now you got him right when he started to get injured and you got rid of him right before his greatest accomplishments. I keep Griffey for sure and he retires a Red. This is about legacy and history with one of the top 10 all time hitters in baseball as much as it is about wins and losses.
Do you think that with a decent bullpen we would be within strinking distance of the divison lead at the very least? I do. thats why I spend real money on a big time relief pitcher or two and dont put a band aid on a battleship again by signing old pitchers at 2.5 million apiece. Dont half *ss your bullpen again Krivsky.

[Degenerate39]

You dont think that Griffey hitting 600 and then maybe 660 is going to bring in millions of dollars, recogonition and appreciation by the people of Cincy? IMHO if you trade Griffey now you got him right when he started to get injured and you got rid of him right before his greatest accomplishments. I keep Griffey for sure and he retires a Red. This is about legacy and history with one of the top 10 all time hitters in baseball as much as it is about wins and losses.
Do you think that with a decent bullpen we would be within strinking distance of the divison lead at the very least? I do. thats why I spend real money on a big time relief pitcher or two and dont put a band aid on a battleship again by signing old pitchers at 2.5 million apiece. Dont half *ss your bullpen again Krivsky.

That's exactly why I dont want to trade Junior. I never said I wanted him out of here. I'm just saying how much longer is he going to be around the bigs? Adam Dunn will be around much longer.

[jmac]

Over the course of this season I have gone from Dunn is going to have a monster year, to same old Dunn, to Dunn is good but not worth 13 million to Dunn just needs a long term contract at less that 13 million per season. At the same time after having thought about the exciement of passing 600 HRs in Cincy and maybe 660 2 years from now I think that we should keep Griffey too.

Ok say we sign a long term deal with Dunn for about 8-10 million per year for 5 years. If you don't think that a guy who brings in the kind of runs he does is worth that then I don't know what to say to you. Great hitters make 15-25 million per year. Adam Dunn is not a great hitter. That doesn't mean that he does not have alot of value on this team. If not then pick up his option and either trade him for value next July or lose him to free agency and get a high vale compensentory pick in the draft. EIther way it does not appear that anyone is interested in giving us anything good this year. Don't just give him away.

Griffey is going to sell some tickets this August and September because everyone is going to want to watch him break 600. He is still our big ticket, he is producing, he still hustles (did you see the double play breaking slide today?), he isn't a liability imo in the outfield and he gives just a little credibility to this struggling team that other teams like KC, Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh and others don't have. It's going to be alot of fun for all fans to watch him break 600 and hopefully climb into the top 4 all time in HRS in a couple of years.

What I would do if I were Krivsky is bring up Votto and have him as my everyday 1st baseman with Conine and Hatteburg as still very cheap and very good pinch hitters that can also play in the field. I then spend my money if the offseason to get proven veteren (but not OLD) bullpen help. I'm not talking about signing a 40 year old to a 2 million dollar contract. I'm talking about signing a 28-30 year old for 5 million.

I think that a scenaio like this is much more likely because Castellini wants to win today rather than 2 years from now. We are not as bad as the record. The bullpen needs to mature and get some help. That can happen in 1 year.

I agree for the most part with you. I still wonder where this team would be if during the offseason we would have moved BP to SS and used Freel at 2nd.
Took the money we spent on guys like Stanton and Gonzalez and either put on Gagne or a closer.Then we would have had basically the same offence plus a bonafide closer and the main thing......Weathers for the 8th inning or on occasion the 7th and 8th if needed.
I know what they say about hindsight but now,that looks like it would have been a good move.
Peronally i dont feel like this team is to far off,justa little tinkering.
I would like to see Votto at first for the 2nd half and let him get his feet wet.

[ChatterRed]

This team is a good bullpen and decent RH power bat away from contending. Revamp the bullpen in the offseason and use the saving on Milton's $10 million to bring in a good RH power bat.

If they could do that, I think they could contend. They'd probably have to up the payroll another $10 million to about $80 mill by the time they sign Dunn longterm, sign a RH power bat, and sign some decent closers.

I still think if they do all that they could contend.