Turn Off Ads?
Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Oh man...an "ah-ha" moment regarding 2008

  1. #1
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    7,441

    Oh man...an "ah-ha" moment regarding 2008

    I took a look at our current normal starting line up guys compared to the rest of MLB (AL and NL). What you see below is the ranking of our guys, sorted by VORP decending (150PA's).

    Code:
         MLB 
    POS  Rank YEAR  NAME             AGE  OBP  SLG  ISO  VORP   EqA 
    
    C    28.  2007  David Ross       30  .251 .407 .211  -3.0  .217 
    1    11.  2007  Scott Hatteberg  37  .409 .493 .175  19.1  .297 
    2    9.   2007  Brandon Phillips 26  .323 .480 .205  17.0  .270 
    3    22.  2007  Edwin E.         24  .353 .391 .121  6.3   .263 
    SS   19.  2007  Alex Gonzalez    30  .295 .443 .195  5.5   .247 
    LF   5.   2007  Adam Dunn        27  .356 .549 .291  22.7  .296 
    CF   9.   2007  Josh Hamilton    26  .371 .543 .264  18.5  .298 
    RF   3.   2007  Ken Griffey Jr.  37  .390 .568 .282  30.8  .315
    At first glance it's not a totally dismal picture. 4 of the 8 are top 10 in all of baseball (this is offense only, obviously). Hatte just missed the cut, Edwin is in a sophmore slump and likely to rebound next year and while Ross sucks canal water at the plate he's likely to produce something (albiet a small something) over time by crushing mistake pitches and throwing out baseruners.

    However, looking forward things start to get murky quick.

    1B: Hatte is having a carear year. He's 37 and counting on this for a 3rd year would be foolhardy at best. Sell, sell, sell. But will Votto fill the void or flopola. Better get him up here toute sweet now so April 2nd, 2008 isn't his first at bat. If Votto flops...?

    3B: I'm assuming EE rebounds from his extreemly slow start. But if he doesn't.....? Not to many folks in the pipeline.

    SS: I can live with Gonzo until a lot of other problems are adressed. But if he is injured? Janish? Keppinger? (gasp.....) Castro?

    RF: Love Jr. Love his stellar year. Love that he's finally healthy and enjoying himself. Love that he's chasing down 600 HR. Counting on him (1) being healthy in 2008 (2) producing the same numbers in 2008 or (3) even being with the team in 2008 is also foolhardy. If he's gone I'm assuming you slide Hamilton over and start Freel in CF ? Yuck.

    CF: Hamilton...feal good story. I think we are starting to see a pattern. Will his body be able to withstand the riggors of an MLB schedule? He may be in tip-top shape now, but will all of those years of chemical abuse prevent him from playing a full year? If he goes down you start who in CF? Hopper? Freel? Hardly a long term soultion.

    LF: Dunn. I hope we see him back in 2008. I also hope he doesn't start a slide towards Kevin Maas implosion around then. But if he is traded or his knees start to give out? Who goes into LF and gives you those sorts of numbers?

    Of corse all of the other teams face the same issues. I'm not aware of any MLB team that has a all-MLB ready AAA team stashed away. But the cubbard is pretty dang bare here, and Wayne's had the benefit of mostly healthy players.

    I don't want this to be a doom & gloom post (I doubt I would be accused of that anyway). But being slow, the lightbulb just went off in my head that Wayne has a serrious mountain to climb. There is a nice core of youth to build around, but Wayne has to be basically perfect in any moves he makes in the next 3 weeks as his margin for error is nill.

    And none of this adresses the pitching, which is what's really bringing us down.
    Last edited by Ltlabner; 07-09-2007 at 03:10 PM.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    43,000

    Re: Oh man...an "ah-ha" moment for 2008

    Oh man...an "ah-ha" moment for 2008

  4. #3
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,298

    Re: Oh man...an "ah-ha" moment for 2008

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    That is phenomenal.

  5. #4
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,298

    Re: Oh man...an "ah-ha" moment regarding 2008

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    I took a look at our current normal starting line up guys compared to the rest of MLB (AL and NL). What you see below is the ranking of our guys, sorted by VORP decending (150PA's).

    Code:
         MLB 
    POS  Rank YEAR  NAME             AGE  OBP  SLG  ISO  VORP   EqA 
    
    C    28.  2007  David Ross       30  .251 .407 .211  -3.0  .217 
    1    11.  2007  Scott Hatteberg  37  .409 .493 .175  19.1  .297 
    2    9.   2007  Brandon Phillips 26  .323 .480 .205  17.0  .270 
    3    22.  2007  Edwin E.         24  .353 .391 .121  6.3   .263 
    SS   19.  2007  Alex Gonzalez    30  .295 .443 .195  5.5   .247 
    LF   5.   2007  Adam Dunn        27  .356 .549 .291  22.7  .296 
    CF   9.   2007  Josh Hamilton    26  .371 .543 .264  18.5  .298 
    RF   3.   2007  Ken Griffey Jr.  37  .390 .568 .282  30.8  .315
    At first glance it's not a totally dismal picture. 4 of the 8 are top 10 in all of baseball (this is offense only, obviously). Hatte just missed the cut, Edwin is in a sophmore slump and likely to rebound next year and while Ross sucks canal water at the plate he's likely to produce something (albiet a small something) over time by crushing mistake pitches and throwing out baseruners.

    However, looking forward things start to get murky quick.

    1B: Hatte is having a carear year. He's 37 and counting on this for a 3rd year would be foolhardy at best. Sell, sell, sell. But will Votto fill the void or flopola. Better get him up here toute sweet now so April 2nd, 2008 isn't his first at bat. If Votto flops...?

    3B: I'm assuming EE rebounds from his extreemly slow start. But if he doesn't.....? Not to many folks in the pipeline.

    SS: I can live with Gonzo until a lot of other problems are adressed. But if he is injured? Janish? Keppinger? (gasp.....) Castro?

    RF: Love Jr. Love his stellar year. Love that he's finally healthy and enjoying himself. Love that he's chasing down 600 HR. Counting on him (1) being healthy in 2008 (2) producing the same numbers in 2008 or (3) even being with the team in 2008 is also foolhardy. If he's gone I'm assuming you slide Hamilton over and start Freel in CF ? Yuck.

    CF: Hamilton...feal good story. I think we are starting to see a pattern. Will his body be able to withstand the riggors of an MLB schedule? He may be in tip-top shape now, but will all of those years of chemical abuse prevent him from playing a full year? If he goes down you start who in CF? Hopper? Freel? Hardly a long term soultion.

    LF: Dunn. I hope we see him back in 2008. I also hope he doesn't start a slide towards Kevin Maas implosion around then. But if he is traded or his knees start to give out? Who goes into LF and gives you those sorts of numbers?

    Of corse all of the other teams face the same issues. I'm not aware of any MLB team that has a all-MLB ready AAA team stashed away. But the cubbard is pretty dang bare here, and Wayne's had the benefit of mostly healthy players.

    I don't want this to be a doom & gloom post (I doubt I would be accused of that anyway). But being slow, the lightbulb just went off in my head that Wayne has a serrious mountain to climb. There is a nice core of youth to build around, but Wayne has to be basically perfect in any moves he makes in the next 3 weeks as his margin for error is nill.

    And none of this adresses the pitching, which is what's really bringing us down.
    The interesting thing here is that many people have been saying by trading either Dunn or Griffey would decimate the offense. For this season, maybe. But looking at the young core here (Dunn, Hamilton, Phillips, EdE) along with Votto and Bruce knocking on the door, it would be a great time to deal Griffey for some young pitching.

    Grif will not be here when this team is successful and should be dealt for the highest return possible. It would be great to see him hit 600 as a Red, but it would be better to see the Reds in the playoffs in a few years by using the prospects received for him and the money saved to bolster the staff.

  6. #5
    Member JaxRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
    Posts
    9,560

    Re: Oh man...an "ah-ha" moment for 2008

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post


    I wonder how many didn't "get that"...
    The lowest acceptable payroll amount for ownership to show they are not greedy pigs is 15 million more than they are currently paying. No matter what that currently is.

  7. #6
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Springfield, Ohio
    Posts
    9,052

    Re: Oh man...an "ah-ha" moment for 2008

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    I wonder how many didn't "get that"...
    I certainly got it, you gotta watch the video footage of that it's hilarious. You should be able to find it on YouTube.

    http://http://www.pimp-my-profile.co...php?tag=Ah+ha#
    Last edited by Mario-Rijo; 07-10-2007 at 12:08 AM.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  8. #7
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Cambridge, OH
    Posts
    19,487

    Re: Oh man...an "ah-ha" moment for 2008

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    I wonder how many didn't "get that"...
    I started involuntarily whistling "Take On Me"! :
    Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet ya.

  9. #8
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    6,179

    Re: Oh man...an "ah-ha" moment regarding 2008

    Josh Hamilton = JD Drew

    Tantalizing talent, lots of crazy injuries. He has been that way since he was drafted, even before the drug issues. Get used to the nagging stuff, durability will be an issue.
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

  10. #9
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Guelph, ON
    Posts
    16,086

    Re: Oh man...an "ah-ha" moment regarding 2008

    There is certainly a legitimate question which says "how does this offense improve" in light of it's current design, particularly given that Dunn and Junior will likely be gone in 2 years, if not sooner. We essentially need 2 of Bruce, Votto, EE, Hamilton to turn in to legitimate all-star level producers or we're in trouble.

    Cyclone, et. al. have shown that after adjusting for GABP, this offense is quite mediocre.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  11. #10
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    15,611

    Re: Oh man...an "ah-ha" moment regarding 2008

    Quote Originally Posted by LoganBuck View Post
    Josh Hamilton = JD Drew

    Tantalizing talent, lots of crazy injuries. He has been that way since he was drafted, even before the drug issues. Get used to the nagging stuff, durability will be an issue.
    It's way, way too early to say that. It was pretty much accepted before the season started that a 162 game year was out of the question with this guy. Drug issues have consumed pretty much all of his minor league career. We don't know what he'll be without them but we do know that he did not go into 2007 prepared to play 162.

  12. #11
    Member VR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Vancouver, Wa
    Posts
    8,588

    Re: Oh man...an "ah-ha" moment for 2008

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu View Post
    I started involuntarily whistling "Take On Me"! :
    it on my IPod , I guess it brings back good 80's memories
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

  13. #12
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    43,000

    Re: Oh man...an "ah-ha" moment regarding 2008



Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25