Screwball that might be the best post I've read all day. I agree with you 100%.Originally Posted by Screwball
Screwball that might be the best post I've read all day. I agree with you 100%.
Excellent point.
He's given plenty of credit. Hamilton, Phillips, and Hatteberg were all good pickups. but:
Hamilton/Burton: Nobody ever questioned the guys talent. The question was can he perform? And can he stay healthy/clean? If he didn't the reds would have been able to sell him back. He has done both really well, but if he hadn't it was a $50,000 straight and flush draw. It was a low risk high reward move. You dont understand that logic? And yes this is a good move by Krivsky.
Hatteberg: Was a proven player who was competent with the stick. He's not a power hitting first-basemen and was drawing zero interest at the time Krivsky grabbed the overlooked Hatteberg for cheap. Another good move, but another player he could get rid of fairly easily if things didn't work out. Also, remember this is when Dunn was scheduled to play the only position he should be allowed to play before Hatteberg was picked up. You can disagree with me if you like, but thats what I think.
Phillips: A great player well worth what the reds gave up. This is hard for me to argue, but at the time he was acquired he had been DFA'd by the Indians. They gave up on him and were not going to get him back. The player the reds gave up is interesting, so could they have picked him off waivers? Also, Phillips went on a hot streak as soon as he got here. That set him up for the year. And we also had Freel and Womack as well as the three catchers, if it wasnt for that hot streak would the reds still have released Womack. Now it is obvious Krivsky made the right choice. And no, trading Votto for a player DFA'd would be stupid.
I don't want to say that because these moves were not more risky that they werent good moves. My point is if they hadn't panned out the players could have been discarded with nobody really faulting Krivsky for trying. Its the calm down dont just look at his good moves and defend some flaws because of them argument.
Last edited by Orenda; 07-13-2007 at 10:33 PM.
Somehow my thread has been hijacked. I simply meant to start a thread about how I wish Germano was still a part of our team; and it turns into a thread about Wayne Krivsky. I just hope from this point on all of us can confine or remarks to Justin Germano, and the trade to the Philadelphia Phillies. Wayne Krivsky is only peripheral to this Germano thread
Yes, but any mention of Justin Germano and his success is going to inevitably lead to Wayne Krivsky. It was almost implied when the thread simply said Justin Germano, look what he is doing....but your right....my bad.
OK.
The Reds traded Germano to the Phillies so as to help an incredibly poor bullpen for a playoff run. That didn't end up working out because the Reds were playing above their heads, Cormier didn't end up helping and the offense went to sleep for the final two months of the season.
Germano is now pitching for San Diego after being released by the Phillies (having never appeared in a single Major league game). He has a nice-looking ERA on the season which looks rather ugly broken down by month:
July: 10.13
June: 4.03
May: 1.08
He is a decent groundball pitcher but he doesn't strike a lot of guys out. Currently, he's more or less league average. That would be nice to have if the season existed in a vacuum. It doesn't though. Go back to the beginning where I said:
The worst thing the Reds did last year was overperform and hang around long enough to try and make it into the postseason. Because of that, they tried to make several moves as buyers in a seller's market.The Reds traded Germano to the Phillies so as to help an incredibly poor bullpen for a playoff run.
Wishing we still had Germano is fine. He may very well have been league average for us as he has been in his second stint with San Diego. Wishing we never had Cormier is fine because he was done and in retrospect, this looks like a bad move. However, the move was made in the situation we were in: chasing a playoff spot with a crappy bullpen and looking for help with whatever the market would bear.
Discuss!
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Last edited by Orenda; 07-14-2007 at 01:05 PM.
I am sorry if I was a little harsh. I do believe it is fair to ask whether the best Krivsky could have gotten was Cormier. I am sure there were better pitchers on the Phillies staff in their bullpen we could have traded Germano for. I will admit Germano has not done as well recently, although that July era of 10.13 is based on 2 starts in the month. I believe he will have a 4.00 era this year, and he might have helped our rotation more than Lohse and Belisle this year. I agree the Reds were overperforming last year, and they are underperforming now. If Germano were still on the team he might be in AAA, or he might have made the rotation in spring training. I will keep track of how he does this year, and post on the subject periodically. It looked like a good trade at the time, but I believe it was a desperate move made to try and fix the bullpen last year. I do hope Wayne is more cautious this year when he makes his trading deadline deals.
Here's a question for ya, AmarilloRed: How well do you think that Germano would pitch in GABP?
I get the impression you think he'd be a good fit in our rotation.
I don't think he would be...GABP exposes middle of the road pitchers for what they are, and I really don't think that Germano would fair any better than our already crappy rotation, excluding Harang.
IMO he'd be more of what we have....and we have enough of that already.
"The players make the manager, it's never the other way." - Sparky Anderson
I don't think you were harsh, I was just answering your question directly.
That's a fair question but all we can do is speculate. So who were those better pitchers? Remember, the Phillies really didn't seem to have a plan to use Germano on the big league club.I do believe it is fair to ask whether the best Krivsky could have gotten was Cormier. I am sure there were better pitchers on the Phillies staff in their bullpen we could have traded Germano for.
All moves that one makes when you need something valuable and you have a threadbare budget / bartering chips seem desperate at worst and risky at best.I will admit Germano has not done as well recently, although that July era of 10.13 is based on 2 starts in the month. I believe he will have a 4.00 era this year, and he might have helped our rotation more than Lohse and Belisle this year. I agree the Reds were overperforming last year, and they are underperforming now. If Germano were still on the team he might be in AAA, or he might have made the rotation in spring training. I will keep track of how he does this year, and post on the subject periodically. It looked like a good trade at the time, but I believe it was a desperate move made to try and fix the bullpen last year. I do hope Wayne is more cautious this year when he makes his trading deadline deals.
FWIW, Germano's ERA+ is 104 and Lohse's 103. ERA+ is park adjusted.
You are assuming he would be a middle of the road pitcher. I don't make that assumption. It is true he has benefited from cavernous San Diego Stadium, but he has also played well on the road. I think he would be more consistant than Belisle and Lohse. I do believe he would be a good 4 or 5 starter, and we will all find out the rest of this year how good a pitcher he will be.
Germano went 6.1 scoreless today. Enough said. Krivsky should have been fired six weeks ago.
Are you basing that on this transaction? If so, Walt Jocketty should be fired for trading away Dan Haren and Kiko Calero (and perhaps another player I think) for Mark Mulder (which has turned out to be VERY lopsided).
Every GM is going to make a blunder. I really hope you don't actually think Kriv should be fired based on this alone, which is what it sounded like...
This thread seems to be festering a little too long in here...
I have a feeling every 5 days we'll be hearing either
"Germano pitched well....Krivsky's an idiot"
or
"See, I told you he'd revert back to his norms"
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