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Thread: Tons Of Reds Rumors 07.12.2007

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    Greatness In The Making RedLegSuperStar's Avatar
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    Tons Of Reds Rumors 07.12.2007

    http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/p...83/1021&theme=

    1. Can they make a pitch for pitching?

    Show general manager Pat Gillick one team that needs pitching, he'll show you 10 more.
    So, clearly, the Phillies aren't alone in their pursuit of arms.

    With 16 teams owning a .500 or better record and two others within one game of break even, the market isn't exactly flooded with available pitching. And the Phillies, with little major league-ready talent at the upper levels of their farm system, have few tradable assets.

    Before the July 31 nonwaiver trade deadline, they may take a look at Reds right-hander Kyle Lohse or possibly Brewers right-hander Dave Bush. But they probably don't have enough bait to land Marlins ace Dontrelle Willis or Athletics right-hander Rich Harden, or the bankroll for White Sox right-hander Javier Vazquez.

    Failing to make a deal will put immense pressure on ace Cole Hamels, veterans Jamie Moyer and Adam Eaton and surprisingly effective rookie Kyle Kendrick.
    http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs....20323/1035/SPT

    Deadline - With the team out of contention for a title, the biggest test of the season remaining is the July 31 trade deadline.

    Krivsky has shown in his brief tenure in Cincinnati that he's not afraid to pull the trigger on blockbuster deals. That same history shows not to believe rumors peddled about in the national media. Krivsky holds his cards so close to his vest that they might as well be in an inside pocket.

    Although Adam Dunn and Griffey are the sexiest names being dangled about as trade bait, Dunn's contract and Griffey's injury history may force teams to be wary of meeting Krivsky's asking price.

    More likely to be help out a contender are first basemen Scott Hatteberg (.318, 8 home runs, 28 RBIs) and Jeff Conine (.270, 4 home runs, 25 RBIs) and veteran relievers Weathers and Mike Stanton.
    http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/con...1207mccoy.html

    CINCINNATI Fast forward to Opening Day 2008. Don't stop along the way, not even to late September of this season because it probably will be ugly.

    What will the Cincinnati Reds roster look like next year? Maybe they should just blow it all up and start over.

    There are only a few so-called untouchables on the current roster, a whole lot of trade bait and a whole lot of won't-be-backs.

    Who are they? Glad you asked. And we're doing this in the interest of aiding General Manager Wayne Krivsky, no compensation required.

    Untouchables

    P Aaron Harang, OF Josh Hamilton, P Homer Bailey, 2B Brandon Phillips.

    Harang is the best pitcher fans outside of Cincinnati have never heard of, even though at 6-foot-7 and 275 pounds you couldn't miss him in a crowded airport terminal.

    Hamilton, the baseball story of the year after missing more than three years due to drug and alcohol abuse, is a future megastar and it won't take long.

    Bailey was rushed to the majors and is paying the price, but has the stuff of stardom.

    Phillips has all the talent, but needs to carry a jar of mustard in his pocket to slather onto his hot-doggedness. Phillips' antics could get him and some of his teammates hurt from errant fastballs due to his showboating.

    Worth keeping

    P Bronson Arroyo, P Jon Coutlangus, OF Ryan Freel, 3B Edwin Encarnacion, OF Ken Griffey Jr., OF Norris Hopper, C David Ross.

    Arroyo drives folks crazy with periods of untouchability and periods when he can't survive, but eats innings and has the stuff.

    Any left-hander who strikes out the side and puts an exclamation point next to it by striking out Barry Bonds to end the all-strikeout inning as Jon Coutlangus did last week is a keeper.

    Freel may not have the most talent and is injury-prone, but his versatility enables him to plug a lot of holes and inject energy into a sometimes-moribund band of Reds.

    Encarnacion is an enigma, because just when it seems his defense and offense are equally putrid he has a spell of hitting and defense that may not remind anybody of Brooks Robinson, but he is a decent imitation of a big-league third baseman.

    Griffey has shown this year what he can do without bandages, surgical procedures and Advil. He has star power with the fans and is still the best player on the team.

    OK, so Ross has long offensive blackouts, but he does hit home runs and hits them in bunches. Plus, he is an A-plus defensive catcher with a Glock arm and is a strong handler of pitchers, a nice stopgap until No. 1 draft pick Devin Mesoraco makes the climb through the system.

    Hopper is a little guy with speed, bunting ability, defensive skills and a great guy to have in the clubhouse as the foil of pranks because he always smiles about it, making him a nice extra player.

    Trade bait

    OF Adam Dunn, 1B Scott Hatteberg, 1B Jeff Conine, P Mike Stanton, P David Weathers, P Todd Coffey,P Matt Belisle, P Kyle Lohse, C Javier Valentin.

    Dunn will be paid $13 million next year if the Reds keep him, but if he is traded that option goes away and any team trading for him risks losing him at the end of the year to free agency. Therefore, before a trade is made, a team must be convinced Dunn will re-sign with them (is that legal?). If a deal can be made, color him gone.

    Aging veterans Hatteberg and Conine, both first basemen, can help contending teams with their savvy and ability and probably will be gone before the trade deadline.

    Stanton, a well-aged vintage left-handed reliever, could be a nice piece for a contending team's bullpen. And depending upon how soon Eddie Guardado comes back to be a closer, the Reds might be able to deal Weathers to a winning team for prospects.

    Everybody is looking for pitching, so Coffey, Lohse and Belisle could be pitchers other teams ask about. All three have had their good moments, and bad moments and a change of scenery could help them and help the Reds improve their rotation and/or bullpen.

    Valentin is, at best, a pinch hitter and a suspect backup catcher because of defensive shortcomings. He is a luxury for a struggling team, but a team pointing toward the playoffs could use a switch-hitting bat and a backup catcher/first baseman.

    Won't be back

    Hatteberg, Conine, Stanton, SS Juan Castro, P Mike Gosling, P Marcus MacBeth, P Ricky Stone.

    Hatteberg, Conine and Stanton have been discussed. If Hatteberg and Conine are gone, that leaves room for Class AAA Louisville first baseman Joey Votto, ready to make the jump.

    Castro has been a wonderful defensive piece with one of the most pleasant demeanors in baseball, but his time is close to up, and the Reds need to get younger with their extra players, guys who might eventually step in and play, such as Louisville infielder Jeff Keppinger.

    Ricky Stone is a journeyman right-hander who can jump from team to team for as long as he wants or return to Hamilton and hang some more drywall.

    MacBeth and Gosling are two guys with permanent round-trip tickets to Louisville, two of about five interchangeable pitchers the Reds bounced back and forth between Cincinnati and Louisville.
    http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/con...ZUbU^UcTYWYWZV

    As one member of the Cincinnati Reds traveling party likes to say every night after a defeat, "Tomorrow is the first game of the rest of the season."

    That's about all the Reds have to look forward that and 13 games with division-leading Milwaukee.

    Incredibly, the Reds and Brewers played only two games before the All-Star break and split.

    What the Reds hope to accomplish after the break is maybe lop a few games off a huge 13-game deficit, for personal pride, if nothing else.

    And how will they do that?

    Depends upon what the front office determines.

    Do they stick with what they have, a group that caused manager Jerry Narron to gain unemployment, or do they start trimming fat?

    Here's a clue: General Manager Wayne Krivsky might be seeking advice from Jenny Craig.

    Your second-half Cincinnati Reds, particularly after the July 31 nonwaivers trade deadline, might not be like your first-half Cincinnati Reds which to most fans is a good thing.

    Several scouts have said Krivsky has made it known to their bosses that the Reds are in a disposal mode, especially high-salaried personnel.

    And owner Bob Castellini said on the day Narron was fired, "We're going to do some things."

    That's things, with an "s" on the end. The first thing was firing Narron, who was 31-51 and 16 games out of first place when he was jettisoned, still owed nearly $900,000 on the rest of this year's contract and all of next year.

    Krivsky, while taking some of the blame for this year's bag of trail mix, said he has tried to make trades, "but it isn't as easy this year, for some reason, as it was last year when we made some moves."

    Moves are more likely to be possible close to the trade deadline. The most likely scenario for the Reds is tweaking of the current roster and trades of players who don't figure in the team's future.

    Neither first baseman Scott Hatteberg nor Jeff Conine fall into the keeper category, but they could help a contending team. It's the same with pitchers Mike Stanton and David Weathers.

    Talk persists that Adam Dunn could soon be wearing another team's uniform (Angels? Dodgers? Astros?), and even he believes it. Ken Griffey Jr. could be moved, too, and forget Seattle. Insiders say he'll only go to Chicago or Atlanta.

    Is it just so much yak?

    Krivsky, a tight-lipped operator, says of the talk, "There is an awful lot of misinformation floating out there. An awful lot."
    "I could watch video of Griffey swinging all day. It's like baseball porn." - C. Trent Rosecrans


    2008 Reds Record When I Attend: 9W - 5L

    2009 Reds Record When I Attend: 1W - 2L

    2010 Reds Record When I Attend: 1W - 0L

    2011 Reds Record When I Attend: 0W - 1L

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    Re: Tons Of Reds Rumors 07.12.2007

    Here's a summary of Junior tidbits from mlbtraderumors.

    To hear Reds GM Wayne Krivsky tell it, "There's a lot of misinformation out there." We'll try not to contribute to that. But here's the latest on Ken Griffey Jr.

    Hal McCoy of the Dayton Daily News believes Junior will only go to Chicago or Atlanta; apparently the Mariners aren't interested right now. Griffey would have to be interested too, given his trade veto power. When McCoy says Chicago, I assume he means the Cubs. The White Sox seem unlikely, but you never know.

    The chatter was reignited on Tuesday, when Peter Gammons quoted Griffey talking about how it made sense for the Reds to trade him now. Griffey's agent, Brian Goldberg, seemed to indicate that the quote from Griffey may have been taken slightly out of context.

    Goldberg also mentions in that article that the Reds called Griffey to shoot down a rumor that had him going to the Brewers. That one was new to me, but it sounds like there's nothing to it.

    Griffey would certainly be a helpful addition in right field at Wrigley. However, as Greg Couch writes, the team's direction with player acquisitions and contracts is an open question right now. Ken Rosenthal, back on June 24th, said the Cubs were not involved in a trade for Griffey. Jayson Stark debunked the Atlanta rumor a few days before that.

    Another major wrinkle for any Griffey trade is that he's knocking on the door of 600 home runs and could pass Sammy Sosa this year for fifth all-time. The Reds would hate to miss out on that good publicity.

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    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Tons Of Reds Rumors 07.12.2007

    Is Javier Vazquez on the market? Bet Omar Minaya would love to land him for the Mets.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

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    Re: Tons Of Reds Rumors 07.12.2007

    It would truly be foolish to not move Lohse, Hatteberg, Conine, Stanton and Weathers if you can get anything serviceable in return.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

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    Re: Tons Of Reds Rumors 07.12.2007

    This team is only a Bill Bray and Everyday Eddie away from contention...

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    Re: Tons Of Reds Rumors 07.12.2007

    The local paper here had Stanton as the best target for the Yankees bullpen.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    Re: Tons Of Reds Rumors 07.12.2007

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    It would truly be foolish to not move Lohse, Hatteberg, Conine, Stanton and Weathers if you can get anything serviceable in return.
    There in lies the rub. Will anyone offer anything serviceable? Historically the returns for middling players are not all that great. Weathers and Hatteberg may be more valuable to the Reds next year than anything they can get in return. Conine and Stanton...not so much. I'd give Stanton away if anyone would take his salary.

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    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Tons Of Reds Rumors 07.12.2007

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    It would truly be foolish to not move Lohse, Hatteberg, Conine, Stanton and Weathers if you can get anything serviceable in return.
    I agree. I'd throw Valentin in that bag as well.

    I don't quite get why Coffey is being discussed. Have the Reds given up on him? If so, I'm surprised.

    The pros and cons of trading Dunn and Griffey are illustrated by the on-going multipage discussions going on here on RZ. Being of simple mind, I'd say keep 'em both unless blown away by a sweetheart offer.

    Pay attention to the open sky

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    Re: Tons Of Reds Rumors 07.12.2007

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    The local paper here had Stanton as the best target for the Yankees bullpen.
    Can we trade him to your local paper?

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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Tons Of Reds Rumors 07.12.2007

    One item had this note:
    That's about all the Reds have to look forward — that and 13 games with division-leading Milwaukee.
    Of course, you know, if we sweep the Brewers from here on out, we're right back in this baby!

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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Tons Of Reds Rumors 07.12.2007

    Quote Originally Posted by puca View Post
    There in lies the rub. Will anyone offer anything serviceable? Historically the returns for middling players are not all that great. Weathers and Hatteberg may be more valuable to the Reds next year than anything they can get in return. Conine and Stanton...not so much. I'd give Stanton away if anyone would take his salary.
    I don't mean this to sound as snotty as it's going to come off, but sometimes we fail to look past the end of our nose. Stanton in the last month has performed extremely well - no question he got of to a horrid, slow start, but lately he's been the performer I think WK expected when he signed him.

    That said, I am not adverse to trading him, but there's more value there than you perceive, I think.

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    Re: Tons Of Reds Rumors 07.12.2007

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    I agree. I'd throw Valentin in that bag as well.

    I don't quite get why Coffey is being discussed. Have the Reds given up on him? If so, I'm surprised.

    The pros and cons of trading Dunn and Griffey are illustrated by the on-going multipage discussions going on here on RZ. Being of simple mind, I'd say keep 'em both unless blown away by a sweetheart offer.
    I imagine Coffey would only go as a sweetner in a much bigger deal. He is certainly no worse than the arms Wayne has been collecting for the past year.

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    Re: Tons Of Reds Rumors 07.12.2007

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    I don't mean this to sound as snotty as it's going to come off, but sometimes we fail to look past the end of our nose. Stanton in the last month has performed extremely well - no question he got of to a horrid, slow start, but lately he's been the performer I think WK expected when he signed him.

    That said, I am not adverse to trading him, but there's more value there than you perceive, I think.
    He is relatively expensive for the next two years (assuming he meets his incentives), is old and is not in very good shape. Espeically with the Reds unlikely to contend next year and the very likely possibility that Stanton reverts to his early season form, Wayne needs to admit the mistake of signing him and dump him if possible.

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    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Tons Of Reds Rumors 07.12.2007

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    I don't mean this to sound as snotty as it's going to come off, but sometimes we fail to look past the end of our nose. Stanton in the last month has performed extremely well - no question he got of to a horrid, slow start, but lately he's been the performer I think WK expected when he signed him.

    That said, I am not adverse to trading him, but there's more value there than you perceive, I think.
    That's a thought I've had too. Part of what Krivsky is up against is keeping a representative team on the field that isn't godawful-horrible that causes attendance to disappear into a black hole.

    Some franchises like the Marlins don't have a relationship with their fan base that is decades long and can afford to ignore them, tear a club down to bare metal, and rebuild with little regard to attendance. The Reds and WK really don't have that option.

    Pay attention to the open sky

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    Member Marc D's Avatar
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    Re: Tons Of Reds Rumors 07.12.2007

    So according to Hal Freel, Ross and Hopper are worth keeping but Dunn is tradebait?

    This franchises media is as deluded as its management.


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