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Thread: Mackanin should be fired already

  1. #16
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    Re: Mackanin should be fired already

    Quote Originally Posted by oneupper View Post
    EE has disappointed me with his bat this season. However, his defense has been rock solid (one error since coming back from AAA).

    Even with his unexpectedly poor performance this year, he is a better offensive alternative than Freel OR Hopper BY A LONG SHOT.

    He is also a better DEFENSIVE option at 3B than Freel.

    To top it off, his SB in the 9th inning on Thursday was his fifht this season. He has not been caught stealing. So, he can't bunt, but he CAN run.

    It makes no sense to play regularly play Freel or Hopper over EE. Mac is as clueless as Narron was if he can't see that.

    Maybe the other night when he came in and let that pop fly drop. He might be a player that needs a wake up call every month or so. Who knows, but I would expect to see him back in there, but you aren't going to fire a manager who has won his 1st two series and just lost 3-2 and 2-1 and beat the mets at home. I kind of like his attitude, but it's still early.
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  3. #17
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    Re: Mackanin should be fired already

    Quote Originally Posted by NJReds View Post
    This team is going nowhere. EE should play everyday. Sitting him benefits noone. The Reds already know what they have in Freel.

    Maybe the rest of the world doesn't. They could be putting him on display and plan to trade him and they have Hooper (who they like) to play center. I don't know.
    And This One Belongs to the REDS!!!

  4. #18
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Mackanin should be fired already

    Quote Originally Posted by NJReds View Post
    The most we'll get for Freel in a trade is minor league fodder. He's a 32-year-old poor man's Chone Figgins. Most of the time he gives away any of the positives he makes on the field with some boneheaded play in the OF or on the basepaths. He has a flair for the dramatic and is a valuable bench player, but let's not overestimate his value.

    The Reds need to get their ship in order, and find out if EE is an answer or not. If you must, play Freel in CF and bench Hopper...who's on his best day is a decent reserve OF and pinch hitter/runner.
    I don't disagree with most of what you are saying, but the important thing is to move Freel's contract. EE has played a lot and if this is a showcasing of Freel, there will be plenty of opportunity after Freel is gone or Dunn or Griffey is gone and Freel is in the OF most of the time. I can be happy with EE sitting for a couple weeks if it helps the Reds move Freel's contract off the books. I think the Reds know what they have in EE by now as much as they know what they have in Freel by now. This is about letting trading partners take a look IMO.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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  5. #19
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    Re: Mackanin should be fired already

    Quote Originally Posted by NJReds View Post
    .....bench Hopper...who's on his best day is a decent reserve OF and pinch hitter/runner.
    Well, Hopper can at least hit left handed pitching: against lefties he is hitting .327/.339/.436. However he has exactly 1 walk in 55 ABs against lefties, so his OBP is just about the same as his average.
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  6. #20
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    Re: Mackanin should be fired already

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I don't disagree with most of what you are saying, but the important thing is to move Freel's contract. EE has played a lot and if this is a showcasing of Freel, there will be plenty of opportunity after Freel is gone or Dunn or Griffey is gone and Freel is in the OF most of the time. I can be happy with EE sitting for a couple weeks if it helps the Reds move Freel's contract off the books. I think the Reds know what they have in EE by now as much as they know what they have in Freel by now. This is about letting trading partners take a look IMO.
    You're probably right. I'm left last night's game very frustrated about the team. I felt like finding FCB and buying him a beer.

  7. #21
    Red's fan mbgrayson's Avatar
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    Re: Mackanin should be fired already

    I keep mentioning left/right splits because I am sure that is why MacKanin uses these 'weird' lineups against lefties. Many managers do the same, although the Reds managed all of two hits yesterday.

    One last split for you:
    Keppinger in AAA 2007:
    vs. lefties:.446/.479/.708
    vs. righties: .337/.402/.374

    Pedro Lopez in AAA 2007:
    vs. lefties:.327/.397/.365
    vs. righties:.347/.395/.472
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  8. #22
    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: Mackanin should be fired already

    Quote Originally Posted by mbgrayson View Post
    I keep mentioning left/right splits because I am sure that is why MacKanin uses these 'weird' lineups against lefties. Many managers do the same, although the Reds managed all of two hits yesterday.

    One last split for you:
    Keppinger in AAA 2007:
    vs. lefties:.446/.479/.708
    vs. righties: .337/.402/.374

    Pedro Lopez in AAA 2007:
    vs. lefties:.327/.397/.365
    vs. righties:.347/.395/.472
    Here's a split worth mentioning:


    Tom Glavine 2007


    vs. RH .240/.290/.417 (OPSA .707)
    vs. LH .321/.410/.443 (OPSA .853)

    kind of opposite what you might expect.
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  9. #23
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    Re: Mackanin should be fired already

    marty b. and jeff b. on the post game show mentioned it looked like the reds were starting players everyday to move them. i'm sure they were talking about freel and hatteburg. connine sat against a lefty the other night.
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  10. #24
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Mackanin should be fired already

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    I wonder how long it will take for whatever "Superstar Manager" TM the Reds hire before the dogs start nipping at his feet too. You folks are a tough crowd when it comes to the long, long season baseball is.
    LOL- that will happen immediately after he is hired, and the dissection of his past managerial duties occurs.

    Pete Mack was hired, ostensibly as an interim, because he and Kriv share basic philosophies. Jerry Narron was extended last year for the same reason.

    The philosophy that values Freel over EE at 3B, and Hopper more in the OF comes from above the manager. Of course Krivsky doesn't tell the manager who to play from day to day. But he does give him the players.

    OTOH, I agree that Freel may be being showcased right now. I can't see how anyone would think that Freel is either a better hitter or a better fielder than EE.

    The only thing Freel offers is the ability to hit leadoff (and I don't think he's a very good lead-off hitter, to be honest. He's not a very good hitter, and when was the last time you saw him try to use his speed to get on base via a drag bunt?).

    The sooner Kriv realizes that he needs to build his team around his good players (BP, EE, Dunn, Griffey, Harang, Arroyo, Bailey, and the young relievers - I'm not giving up on them yet), and trade the rest, yes, even for relief pitching, the faster this team will get better.

    Probably the two most likely guys to be traded now are Dunn and Hatte. I don't think you can get value back for Dunn, so I'd keep him. Hatte can be flipped for some decent RP and I wouldn't have a problem with that.

    If Dunn is traded for RP, I may just boycott the rest of the season, however. And that would make me very sad.

  11. #25
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Mackanin should be fired already

    Quote Originally Posted by toledodan View Post
    marty b. and jeff b. on the post game show mentioned it looked like the reds were starting players everyday to move them. i'm sure they were talking about freel and hatteburg. connine sat against a lefty the other night.
    That's my take too.

    Although the theories that the Reds are trying to sabotage EE's career because they hate him are pretty compelling too.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

  12. #26
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    Re: Mackanin should be fired already

    Gotta be putting Freel out there to prove to any scouts he's recovered.
    If you wanted to sit EE vs. any lefty...Keppinger would have been in there.
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

  13. #27
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    Re: Mackanin should be fired already

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    LOL- that will happen immediately after he is hired, and the dissection of his past managerial duties occurs.

    Pete Mack was hired, ostensibly as an interim, because he and Kriv share basic philosophies. Jerry Narron was extended last year for the same reason.

    The sooner Kriv realizes that he needs to build his team around his good players (BP, EE, Dunn, Griffey, Harang, Arroyo, Bailey, and the young relievers - I'm not giving up on them yet), and trade the rest, yes, even for relief pitching, the faster this team will get better.

    Probably the two most likely guys to be traded now are Dunn and Hatte. I don't think you can get value back for Dunn, so I'd keep him. Hatte can be flipped for some decent RP and I wouldn't have a problem with that.

    If Dunn is traded for RP, I may just boycott the rest of the season, however. And that would make me very sad.
    There's a need for objectivity. Somebody posted that EE is one of the 2-3 most valuable players in the organization. This post says he is one of the 6 or 7 "good players." Let's look at the reality. He is young and talented, but hasn't hit much in a full year. He is one of the few righty hitters the Reds have yet is hitting .226 with one homer against lefties. (No shock he didn't play against Tom Glavine.) Yes, his defense has improved but he isn't Scott Rolen out there.

    Last year people were comparing EE to David Wright. I don't think that comparison would go very far right now.

    I don't mind the debates about Dunn. With all he's accomplished it is certainly fair game to say the Reds should keep him, despite the view of many that they shouldn't. But let's be objective about some of the other guys who folks here would label untouchable, or future stars.
    Last edited by Kc61; 07-15-2007 at 11:25 AM.

  14. #28
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Mackanin should be fired already

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    There's a need for objectivity. Somebody posted that EE is one of the 2-3 most valuable players in the organization. This post says he is one of the 6 or 7 "good players." Let's look at the reality. He is young and talented, but hasn't hit much in a full year. He is one of the few righty hitters the Reds have yet is hitting .226 with one homer against lefties. (No shock he didn't play against Tom Glavine.) Yes, his defense has improved but he isn't Scott Rolen out there.

    Last year people were comparing EE to David Wright. I don't think that comparison would go very far right now.

    I don't mind the debates about Dunn. With all he's accomplished it is certainly fair game to say the Reds should keep him, despite the view of many that they shouldn't. But let's be objective about some of the other guys who folks here would label untouchable, or future stars.
    EE basically projects as a league average third baseman. That has value during his control years. Untouchable is probably hyperbole but who do the Reds replace him with?
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  15. #29
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Mackanin should be fired already

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    There's a need for objectivity. Somebody posted that EE is one of the 2-3 most valuable players in the organization. This post says he is one of the 6 or 7 "good players." Let's look at the reality. He is young and talented, but hasn't hit much in a full year. He is one of the few righty hitters the Reds have yet is hitting .226 with one homer against lefties. (No shock he didn't play against Tom Glavine.) Yes, his defense has improved but he isn't Scott Rolen out there.

    Last year people were comparing EE to David Wright. I don't think that comparison would go very far right now.

    I don't mind the debates about Dunn. With all he's accomplished it is certainly fair game to say the Reds should keep him, despite the view of many that they shouldn't. But let's be objective about some of the other guys who folks here would label untouchable, or future stars.
    No question that he's no David Wright.

    I'm not a huge EE fan by any means. I was all for benching him when JN did so, and for him spending some time in AAA.

    But his defense has improved, a lot. His attitude, which I questioned, seems to be fine, and his time in AAA toughened him up.

    His bat has been just OK this year; a disappointment as compared to last year. He's young, he's got a lot of talent, and who else in this org is going to play 3B?

    If you can deal him for value and get a comparable 3B back (from someone, anyone) to replace him then that's fine, too.

    I didn't claim he was "untouchable." I suggested he was a player to build around, not to deal. I think that's pretty objective; but that's just MHO.

  16. #30
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Mackanin should be fired already

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    That's my take too.

    Although the theories that the Reds are trying to sabotage EE's career because they hate him are pretty compelling too.

    I don't think the Reds are trying to sabotage EE's career.

    I don't think they are smart enough to recognize EE's talent eighther.



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