Turn Off Ads?
Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Are the Reds hurting Bailey's development

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amarillo,Texas
    Posts
    4,406

    Are the Reds hurting Bailey's development

    I am worried about this latest move keeping him down after the All-Star break. They have not had a good history of developing starting pitching, and it seems Homer was very upset about his demotion. I remember what happened when Ryan Wagner was sent down. I know Wagner had a bad delivery; still, part of his problem was mental and the same might happen to Bailey. I hope he can work on his off-speed stuff the rest of the month in AAA and come back a better pitcher. I think the Reds need to be very careful how they handle Homer Bailey.


  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    1,591

    Re: Are the Reds hurting Bailey's development

    Unless he gets blasted I think Homer will be back up the next time they can squeeze him into the rotation without messing up the other pitcher's schedules. How could this hurt his development? If he truly has what it takes be an elite pitcher then he will hold up fine mentally. If he doesn't then he was going to fall apart at some point because adversity is inevitable. I would like to see Homer pitch for the Reds but he still has some learning to do and clearly could use some work in AAA. The only reason I can see to bring him up would be the advantage of having Pole coach him. However, given the performance of some of our pitchers I don't know that he is that much better.

    I will add that if he reverts to form and dominates AAA over the next couple starts then he should be brought back up. But if he can't get AAA batters out anymore then there is no reason to let big league players hammer him.
    Last edited by joshnky; 07-16-2007 at 04:29 PM.

  4. #3
    Red's fan mbgrayson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    2,303

    Re: Are the Reds hurting Bailey's development

    Homer pitches tonight against the Durham Bulls. There has been some discussion about a drop in Homer's velocity. I wonder if he is trying to pitch through an injury.

    For whatever reason, Bailey isn't striking out batters in the majors at anywhere near his AAA rate.

    Homer has struck out 55 in 61.2 innings in Louisville. That is a 8.03 K/9 rate.
    In Cincinnati, he has struck out 15 in 28.1 innings. That is a 4.76 K/9 rate.
    Last year at both Chatanooga and Sarasota, Homer had above a 9 K/9 rate.

    Other young pitchers may have some drop-off going from AAA to MLB, but not almost in half.
    For example, Tim Licecum of the Giants. In AAA this year, he struck out 46 in 31 innings. (K/9 rate of 13.36!). With the Giants, he has struck out 87 in 78 innings(K/9 of 10.04).

    Phil Hughes; minors 26 ks in 21 innings, Yankees 11 ks in 10.2 innings.
    Andrew Miller; minors 52 Ks in 72 IP, Tigers 31 Ks in 40 IP.
    Yovani Gallardo; minors 110 Ks in 77.2 IP, Brewers 27 Ks in 28.1 IP.

    In fact, Homer's 4.76 K/9 rate is alarmingly low. For him to be a "#1" starter, he is going to have to do better than that.
    __________________
    "I think we’re starting to get to the point where people are starting to get tired of this stretch of ball,” Votto said. “I think something needs to start changing and start going in a different direction. I’m going to do my part to help make that change.”

  5. #4
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    49,393

    Re: Are the Reds hurting Bailey's development

    I question the validity of Homers loss of veloctiy. Homers problem with strikeouts in the majors is simply he isn't getting the ball over the plate and major league hitters are more patient. Simple as that.

    If he throws his pitches over the plate, he will be just fine.

  6. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,672

    Re: Are the Reds hurting Bailey's development

    I remember his first inning against the Cards. Fastball between 94-97. Kept missing high, gave up a run. Either he needs to develope his other pitches or improve his control with his fastball to dominate in AAA. Both for the majors.

  7. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    indiana
    Posts
    1,407

    Re: Are the Reds hurting Bailey's development

    Homer needs to work thru whatever troubles he is going thru. Its his first time facing adversity , he'll be fine. Everyone who talks about him says he has the stuff and moxy to be a success I believe them.

    As an old timer I remember when Mario Soto came up his first start was at Wrigley Field first game of a double headder he threw like a 3 hit 1 run game, but struggled after that and was sent back down to find himself.

    He made 10 starts that first year was 2-6 with a 5.34 era , struck out only 44 in 60 innings after dominating at AAA. He was only 20. Took Mario a couple years to figure it out , at 23 he found it though and was a top pitcher until his arm gave out.

    Bailey may struggle for the rest of the season , maybe even part of next but he's barely 21 success at the big league level seldom comes quickly to a pitcher that young. Patience is the key Bailey will work thru this and he and the Reds will be better for it.

  8. #7
    Red's fan mbgrayson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    2,303

    Re: Are the Reds hurting Bailey's development

    Bailey tonight in Louisville:
    5.2 innings, gave up 4 hits, 3 walks, 1 HR, 5 runs(2 earned), and struck out 4. Bats behind 8-1 in the 8th. Bailey in line for the loss.
    __________________
    "I think we’re starting to get to the point where people are starting to get tired of this stretch of ball,” Votto said. “I think something needs to start changing and start going in a different direction. I’m going to do my part to help make that change.”

  9. #8
    Member Eric_Davis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Portland, Or
    Posts
    5,041

    Re: Are the Reds hurting Bailey's development

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I question the validity of Homers loss of veloctiy. Homers problem with strikeouts in the majors is simply he isn't getting the ball over the plate and major league hitters are more patient. Simple as that.

    If he throws his pitches over the plate, he will be just fine.
    You can see where he's aggressive one minute and timid another. A player as good as Bailey is that has bad numbers is not indicative of poor performance, but just facing yet another challenge.
    Rob Neyer: "Any writer who says he'd be a better manager than the worst manager is either 1) lying (i.e. 'using poetic license') or 2) patently delusional. Which isn't to say managers don't do stupid things that you or I wouldn't."

  10. #9
    Talkin' Baseball
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    The 'Nati
    Posts
    278

    Re: Are the Reds hurting Bailey's development

    Quote Originally Posted by mbgrayson View Post
    Bailey tonight in Louisville:
    5.2 innings, gave up 4 hits, 3 walks, 1 HR, 5 runs(2 earned), and struck out 4. Bats behind 8-1 in the 8th. Bailey in line for the loss.
    Looking through the game log, he had only given up 1 hit through 5. Got into a little trouble in the 6th, but some bad D (including his own throwing error) didn't help. Looks like he got pulled due to pitch count. Salmon couldn't close the door and the last 2 runs plated with him on the mound. I'd like to see Homer get the K's up, but he may be working on the secondary pitches so that may explain a little of what is going on down there. I noticed during Homer's last start for the Reds that his FB is more effective up in the zone and he seemed to be getting stronger as the game went on. I'm looking forward to his next go around up with the big club. He's had a couple of bad innings since being sent down, but he's not getting spanked all over the park or anything. He just needs to avoid those big innings.

  11. #10
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    45,734

    Re: Are the Reds hurting Bailey's development

    The only thing that's hurting Bailey's development is the club pushing him to be ready before he is ready. He's got pitches to polish and a body to fill out. He's thrown a grand total of 135.1 IP in the upper minors and he probably needs something more like 300. He's never throw more than 138 IP in a season. He hasn't been around high A, AA or AAA long enough to allow hitters to adjust to him (and it's entirely possible they could). He can't put the ball where he wants it on a consistent basis and that's just begging for trouble in the majors.

    Pitching development isn't for those who demand instant gratification. It's a long process, fraught with setbacks, requiring the franchise to show patience even it seems perfectly rational to jump a kid ahead. If Homer Bailey can stay healthy then maybe in another two years the Reds will have themselves a pitcher who can do something notable in the majors.
    I'm not a system player. I am a system.

  12. #11
    Member mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    31,935

    Re: Are the Reds hurting Bailey's development

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    He's got pitches to polish and a body to fill out.
    I think this is the most overlooked factor when discussing Bailey. The guy is still maturing physically and hasn't thrown a full season starter's load at any point in his career to this point. When a kid like him is still filling out physically, its more dangerous to jump his workload in anything other than a gradual manner. For Bailey to get where he is going he needs to add about 30 Innings to what he did last year as a safe progression. Any more increases the risk of injury and less may leave him short of being fully prepared (and leading to a jump that is too large next year which also risks injury). Bailey needs to stay on schedule and pitch his 170 innings this year while his body matures and his pitches are refined in the process. The primary task is building his workload IMO, and that is much more easily controlled in AAA than in the big leagues. He simply is not ready physically.
    All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!

  13. #12
    Red's fan mbgrayson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    2,303

    Re: Are the Reds hurting Bailey's development

    Quote Originally Posted by mbgrayson View Post
    Homer pitches tonight against the Durham Bulls. There has been some discussion about a drop in Homer's velocity. I wonder if he is trying to pitch through an injury.
    Unfortunately, I was right...from C. Trent:

    "Homer Bailey was put on the minor league DL with a strained right groin. It's the same injury that put him on the DL earlier this season."
    __________________
    "I think we’re starting to get to the point where people are starting to get tired of this stretch of ball,” Votto said. “I think something needs to start changing and start going in a different direction. I’m going to do my part to help make that change.”


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | Gallen5862 | Plus Plus | Powel Crosley | RedlegJake | The Operator