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Thread: Ichiro one ups Jr...

  1. #31
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Ichiro one ups Jr...

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    VORP is position dependent (i.e. a player's production will translate into a higher or lower VORP depending upon his position-i.e. the relative pool of players he's being compared too). That said, there is no reason that the advantage a player represents versus his pool can't be compared between players who play different positions.
    I'd say that VORP is a limited-use tool as far as cross-positional comparisons are concerned. The comparison between RF and LF is likely more apt than either corner spot and CF. RF, LF and 1B are power positions, CF, 2B and SS are speed/skill positions, and 3B falls somewhere in between. Catchers exist in their own category. I simply don't see much value in using VORP to compare a speed position with a power position, particularly when (in the case of Dunn and Ichiro) both players fit the profile of their respective positions perfectly.
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  3. #32
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Ichiro one ups Jr...

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    So you're comfortable comparing VORPs of SS and LFs? You believe that their relative output translates in that fashion>
    Why not? I actually think it's a enlightened approach.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  4. #33
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Ichiro one ups Jr...

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis View Post
    I'd say that VORP is a limited-use tool as far as cross-positional comparisons are concerned. The comparison between RF and LF is likely more apt than either corner spot and CF. RF, LF and 1B are power positions, CF, 2B and SS are speed/skill positions, and 3B falls somewhere in between. Catchers exist in their own category. I simply don't see much value in using VORP to compare a speed position with a power position, particularly when (in the case of Dunn and Ichiro) both players fit the profile of their respective positions perfectly.
    Yet one clearly gave his team a significantly greater advantage relative to replacement than the other. I don't understand why that wouldn't be considered to speak directly to their relative worths.

    VORP is essentially a metric that measures production. There are a million ways for individual players to reach the same level of production. While it may affect projectibility, the skillset they utilized to get there doesn't really mitigate the value of what they did.
    Last edited by jojo; 07-19-2007 at 03:57 PM.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  5. #34
    Member Eric_Davis's Avatar
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    Re: Ichiro one ups Jr...

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis View Post
    I'd say that VORP is a limited-use tool as far as cross-positional comparisons are concerned. The comparison between RF and LF is likely more apt than either corner spot and CF. RF, LF and 1B are power positions, CF, 2B and SS are speed/skill positions, and 3B falls somewhere in between. Catchers exist in their own category. I simply don't see much value in using VORP to compare a speed position with a power position, particularly when (in the case of Dunn and Ichiro) both players fit the profile of their respective positions perfectly.
    But, Ichiro has always been a RF until this year. That's one of the things I've always hated about him. The M's would have no power coming from their CF and RF positions and until they got Ibanez, no power from LF either. I wish he would have gone to CF years ago and the Mariners wouldn't have had so much trouble scoring runs. They're fine, now.
    Rob Neyer: "Any writer who says he'd be a better manager than the worst manager is either 1) lying (i.e. 'using poetic license') or 2) patently delusional. Which isn't to say managers don't do stupid things that you or I wouldn't."


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