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Thread: Buy low, sell high. It's time to shop...Brandon Phillips

  1. #46
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    Re: Buy low, sell high. It's time to shop...Brandon Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    Phillips would bring a much better return at this point due to the extreme value of his contract.
    True. But if you deal Phillips and lose Dunn and Jr. to free agency after next year, what are you left with for the last two years of Harang and Arroyo? In other words, you better get some DAMN good pitching (like a Garza or a Miller) if you're gonna move Phillips, and that's all I'm saying.
    Last edited by Benihana; 07-19-2007 at 12:03 PM.
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  3. #47
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    Re: Buy low, sell high. It's time to shop...Brandon Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    True. But if you deal Phillips and lose Dunn and Jr. to free agency after next year, what are you left with for the last two years of Harang and Arroyo? In other words, you better get some DAMN good pitching (like a Garza or a Miller) if you're gonna move Phillips, and that's all I'm saying.
    Agreed. You wouldn't trade Phillips for a guy who projects to be a middle-of-the-rotation starter. You'd only deal him if you got a boatload of talent in return.

    The thing is, the Reds won't be competing for the next two years unless that boatload of talent arrives. And I don't think Dunn or Griffey alone can pack enough bodies on that boat for it to make a difference.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

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    Re: Buy low, sell high. It's time to shop...Brandon Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by redsrule2500 View Post
    No, just no.

    Also: Your buy low sell high doesn't make sense with baseball.

    We bought low, but now we have HIGH product. Why trade HIGH product for another HIGH product? Why not just keep HIGH product? It's not like the stock market and cashing in....
    Buy low sell high is a mantra that works in baseball IF you think you have a volatile commodity that may not maintain its value. If you think Phillips is overperforming right now, and may revert back to his 2005 level, selling high makes sense. Otherwise, you could just be trading yourself into mediocrity.
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    Re: Buy low, sell high. It's time to shop...Brandon Phillips

    I'm with those that said no one on the team should be untouchable. I'd certainly entertain offers for Brandon IF it were the right deal. It's gotta be for pitching though AND it also has to be for a pitching than will help us in the near future.

    Again though, no player on the Reds should truly be untouchable.

  6. #50
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    Re: Buy low, sell high. It's time to shop...Brandon Phillips

    at some point you have to build around something ... otherwise you end up as the Pirates or Royals.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  7. #51
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    Re: Buy low, sell high. It's time to shop...Brandon Phillips

    I think Phillips is more likely the player that Special K builds around over Dunn...Phillips is the type of player that fits the model of D, Speed and Bat that Special K likes...Dunn, on the other hand, is not.
    "Sometimes, it's not the sexiest moves that put you over the top," Krivsky said. "It's a series of transactions that help you get there."

  8. #52
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    Re: Buy low, sell high. It's time to shop...Brandon Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    at some point you have to build around something ... otherwise you end up as the Pirates or Royals.
    I agree. I wouldn't trade Phillips for anything but MLB-ready pitching.

  9. #53
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    Re: Buy low, sell high. It's time to shop...Brandon Phillips

    trading is difficult because for the most part in recent years it has been a buyers market.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    Re: Buy low, sell high. It's time to shop...Brandon Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    trading is difficult because for the most part in recent years it has been a buyers market.
    Trouble is, you have to do something on either the trade or the FA front because, in the Reds' case, there are no reinforcements coming from the farm.

    You can't be a Hamlet; something must be done. Not necessarily saying it must involve Phillips--but you can't throw your hands up.

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    Re: Buy low, sell high. It's time to shop...Brandon Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by 15fan View Post
    Reds are currently 12th of 16 in the NL with a team ERA of 4.67. Houston and St. Louis are 13th and 14th, with ERAs of 4.68 and 4.69, respectively.

    Cincinnati bullpen is tied for 2nd with 15 blown saves this year.

    This team isn't going anywhere until it comes up with significantly better pitching.

    If the Reds want another top flight young starting pitcher, or maybe a solid set up man and a closer with lights-out potential, they're going to have to give something up to get it.

    I'm not suggesting the Reds give away Phillips. I like him too. But his value's just about as high as it's ever going to be.

    So let's see what the market is.

    Wow, I am convinced some of you want us to suck forever. We are definately not going to go anywhere is we continue to serve as the farm team of the rest of the league. Phillips is young, cheap, productive, in a position of high demand... he is the exact type of player we shouldn't deal...

    we certainly aren't one or 2 players away from being a powerhouse but sure aren't that far away from being a contender that we need to sell players like Phillips

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    Re: Buy low, sell high. It's time to shop...Brandon Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Trouble is, you have to do something on either the trade or the FA front because, in the Reds' case, there are no reinforcements coming from the farm.
    I agree, that's why it takes someone with a special skill set doing the negotiating and making the decisions.
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  13. #57
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    Re: Buy low, sell high. It's time to shop...Brandon Phillips

    Brandon Phillips contributes heavily to: team power, team speed, and team defense. He is young and the type of player that gets better in his thirties. He's also a competitor and not afraid to speak his mind. You keep him. The "buy-low, sell-high" slogan means you'll end up like th Montreal Expos.
    "Don't trust any statistics you did not fake yourself."--Winston Churchill

  14. #58
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    Re: Buy low, sell high. It's time to shop...Brandon Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by redsrule2500 View Post
    No, just no.

    Also: Your buy low sell high doesn't make sense with baseball.

    We bought low, but now we have HIGH product. Why trade HIGH product for another HIGH product? Why not just keep HIGH product? It's not like the stock market and cashing in....
    Exactly. The only reason to sell high is so you can reinvest your gains in the next growth opportunity. Unfortuantely, unlike stocks, you can't simply bank the initial investment and trade only on the gains. You have to reinvest it all, which makes it a much riskier proposition, as you risk losing it all in the process.

    Unless somebody offers you a package that is virtually guaranteed to be more valuable than Phillips ON THE FIELD, the risk isn't worth it. At some point, you have to actually capitalize on your gains. You'd basically need to trade Phillips for a copy of him, plus a good prospect or two and I don't know who would do that and why.

    If somebody offers you a deal from which you think you are likely to realize more value, then go for it. I'm of the mindset that nobody is ever untouchable from a baseball perspective (perhaps marketing). The Cardinals COULD theoretically get enough value to trade away Pujols. However, you have be careful not to be so willing to take that next big risk that you fail to ever decide on a base. You could be up $50,000 at the blackjack table, but until you cash it in, it's just chips. If you keep betting, you run the risk of losing it. At some point, you cash in.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 07-19-2007 at 01:13 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: Buy low, sell high. It's time to shop...Brandon Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Trouble is, you have to do something on either the trade or the FA front because, in the Reds' case, there are no reinforcements coming from the farm.
    Jay Bruce, Joey Votto, Homer Bailey, and Johnny Cueto don't qualify?
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  16. #60
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    Re: Buy low, sell high. It's time to shop...Brandon Phillips

    Because of GABP Phillips can hit 25-30 HRs and play Gold Glove defense. He would hit 20 in a non-band-box. Griffey and Dunn will hit the same number of home runs wherever they go because when they connect, the ball will leave any park. Those are the guys you can trade--and they have real value to, let's say, San Diego, because you need such power to hit a ball out there. I don't understand why some people want to hang on to Dunn and Griffey so much. You don't need their kind of power at GABP. Torii Hunter would have the same HR numbers at GABP as Griffey or Dunn, plus he plays Gold-Glove defense and would give you added speed. Griffey or Dunn will have about the same HR numbers (maybe a few less) in any other park. What this all means is you can get MUCH MORE relative value for your dollar and more complete players if you sign 20-30 HR guys who play good defense. They will become league-leading power hitters at GABP without sacrificing other aspects of the game.
    "Don't trust any statistics you did not fake yourself."--Winston Churchill


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