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Thread: Dunn talks to Mackanin

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    Member 11larkin11's Avatar
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    Dunn talks to Mackanin

    Didn't see this posted, maybe I missed it.

    MIAMI -- The timing was uncanny and entirely coincidental.
    An unfounded trade rumor had circulated Thursday morning reporting that Reds left fielder Adam Dunn was traded to the Brewers. Sure enough by the same afternoon, Dunn emerged from a closed door meeting with interim manager Pete Mackanin and members of the coaching staff.

    However, Dunn wasn't headed anywhere. Instead, he had something on his mind and wanted to talk with Mackanin about it.

    Several times, including the previous three games vs. Atlanta, Dunn had been lifted during the late innings for Norris Hopper in left field for defensive purposes. In Tuesday's game, Cincinnati had a six-run lead in the seventh inning.

    The meeting was viewed as entirely positive.

    "It was a great conversation," Mackanin said. "At least he expressed it. Every manager loves players that don't want to come out of the game. He didn't come in complaining. He was expressing that he didn't like coming out. It was kind of a 'get it off your chest' good. He's fine with everything."

    Although a prolific home run hitter, Dunn is considered below average defensively.

    "I understand a lot of situations. I've got it. I'm not dumb," Dunn said. "We just talked about some situations. [In a] one-run game, I've got it. Sometimes, though, in the seventh inning, there's a lot of game left."

    "'It's not that I think you're a bad outfielder,'" Mackanin said he told Dunn. "'Hopper is going to get to more balls and has better range. It's that easy. It's not that we think you're going to drop balls.'"

    Since taking over, Mackanin said he's tried to meet with many of the players individually and build working relationships.

    "It's important for them to know that I'm approachable," he said. "I prefer if they have a problem, come in and talk to me and I'll do what I can. I think players like a personal touch. It's more important for me to talk to the guys that aren't playing well and show them you're not mad at them."

    "He's an easy guy to talk to," Dunn said.
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  3. #2
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Dunns talks to Mackanin

    Today was a bit head scratching....pulled him in the 7th down by 2

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    Re: Dunns talks to Mackanin

    so far the new manager is making the right choices.. Norris got a big hit in the 8th!!.. i dont make any deals till around the 31st.. lets see how far we are out after the 4 game series with Milwaukee.. i love the change in attitude on this team.. and another thing... im more interested now post-Narron!

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    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: Dunns talks to Mackanin

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw View Post
    Today was a bit head scratching....pulled him in the 7th down by 2
    I didn't agree with it either, but I think it had everything to do with trying to save the bullpen after a 15-inning game yesterday. Kc61 mentioned this in the game thread, and it made sense. A double-switch had to be made, and Dunn was the last player to bat, so he was the "lucky" guy who was removed.

    I still didn't agree with it, though. But it worked out.
    Last edited by Big Klu; 07-19-2007 at 10:33 PM.
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    Member paulrichjr's Avatar
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    Re: Dunns talks to Mackanin

    http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog...e=olney_buster

    Mackanin has nothing to loseposted: Thursday, July 19, 2007 | Feedback | Print Entry

    Pete Mackanin's title is interim manager, and there is no side agreement, no guarantee that he is going to manage the Reds next year, or even tomorrow. Cincinnati could hire someone like Joe Girardi this summer or Tony La Russa in the offseason, and Mackanin would be out of a job. He is realistic about the possibilities.
    "I'm in a precarious situation," he said the other day, in the visiting manager's office at Shea Stadium. "I'm aware of it."

    But the circumstances are liberating for him, in a sense. He can do what he wants, when he wants to, and do everything he can to take advantage of this opportunity and help build his case to be a major league manager -- if not with the Reds, then with some other team.

    So far, so good. The Reds were 31-51 on the day that Jerry Narron was fired, and there was a sense in the clubhouse that the players were drifting, not playing intensely. Cincinnati is now 9-4 since Mackanin took over, and in their most recent victory, their interim manager took the kind of chance that might go against the book, the kind of chance he feels free to take. This is from The Associated Press account of the game:


    Cincinnati employed an unusual defense in the 10th to extinguish a Braves rally.
    With Chipper Jones standing on third with one out and Jeff Francoeur about to hit, Reds interim manager Pete Mackanin moved center fielder Ryan Freel in front of the bag at second, and the strategy paid off.

    Brandon Phillips made a leaping catch of Francoeur's liner before throwing to third baseman Jeff Keppinger to force out Jones, who had moved down the line to score the winning run. Jones' RBI double earlier in the inning off David Weathers tied it at 3.

    "When I hit it, I thought the game was over," Francoeur said. "He got it, and that stunned me. And then of course he threw out Chipper. It was like a nightmare, and then the game went on for another two hours. As the game went on, it didn't seem like we were supposed to win."

    Mackanin said the other day, "It's my job to come up with a scheme to have a little bit more success. ... I want to win, I want to manage in the big leagues. ... It's too easy to cover your rear end by bringing in righty-righty, lefty-lefty. You take some chances."

    Mackanin recalled a conversation he had with Felipe Alou when he was a coach for Alou with the Expos. Alou had a reputation for trying different things, double steals and hit-and-runs in crazy situations, and he explained it to Mackanin: When you are the Expos and you are playing a team like the Atlanta Braves, you need to try different things. If you are Pete Mackanin and you are an interim manager and you want to be manager, permanently, you take chances.
    Tim McCarver: Baseball Quotes
    I remember one time going out to the mound to talk with Bob Gibson. He told me to get back behind the batter, that the only thing I knew about pitching was that it was hard to hit.

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    Member CTA513's Avatar
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    Re: Dunns talks to Mackanin

    How long will it take for this to get flipped around to make Dunn look like a selfish player?

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    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Dunns talks to Mackanin

    Quote Originally Posted by CTA513 View Post
    How long will it take for this to get flipped around to make Dunn look like a selfish player?
    I'm surprised it hasn't happened already

    Hey lets try one!

    "Well maybe if Dunn WORKED HARDER he wouldn't be pulled late in games"

    Go Gators!

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    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Dunns talks to Mackanin

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    I'm surprised it hasn't happened already

    Hey lets try one!

    "Well maybe if Dunn WORKED HARDER he wouldn't be pulled late in games"


    Dunn just doesn't care, he sucks in LF, he's not a clutch hitter, he's got a terrible batting average with runners in scoring position, hits meaningless HRs and strikes out too much.

    Great Baseball Minds such as Marty Brennamen, Bad Fundamentals and Prose see all these things, we could learn something from them if only we pay attention.

    Last edited by Ron Madden; 07-20-2007 at 04:35 AM.

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    Member icehole3's Avatar
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    Re: Dunns talks to Mackanin

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Madden View Post
    Dunn just doesn't care, he sucks in LF, he's not a clutch hitter, he's got a terrible batting average with runners in scoring position, hits meaningless HRs and strikes out too much.

    Great Baseball Minds such as Marty Brennamen, Bad Fundamentals and Prose see all these things, we could learn something from them if only we pay attention.

    I couldnt have said it any better, there's always a reason why someone gets pulled...memo to Dunn youre defensive play this year is laughable and if anyone disagrees theyre smoking crack, he's a bad defensive outfielder, no way around that guys Im sorry.

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    Member Eric_Davis's Avatar
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    Re: Dunns talks to Mackanin

    Some numbers to support Mackinen:

    Hopper has 4 assists in 99 TC this year with Zero errors, and that's "hopping" around from Center to Left to Right and back again, with each park he does this in a first time experience or very new experience for him. Dunn's in his 6th year patrolling the National League Parks.

    Other REDS' outfielders and their assist totals:
    Hamilton has 6 assists in 177 chances with 2 errors.
    Junior has 3 assists in 171 chances with 3 errors.
    Dunn has 2 assists in 149 chances with 4 errors.
    Freel has 1 assist in 106 chances with 2 errors.

    Hopper's assists have come from every outfield position.

    Where Hopper excels at nailing runners, he's more exceptional in his ability to cover a larger area than anyone else on the team, and it's a huge difference not a marginal one. Someone might say small sample size, but then it would be different for the different positions. Hopper's numbers are consistent no matter which outfield position he's playing. We have possibly one of the best defensive outfielders in the game in Hopper. So, yes. It's a no-brainer to substitute him for Dunn in late-inning situations all the time.

    In Left Field Hopper's Range Factor is 3.11 and Zone Rating is .972
    Dunn's is 1.81 and .839
    Hamilton's Range Factor in LF is 1.67 I remember how clutsy Hamilton looked at times out there this year. It was obvious he'd been away from the game for three years and then all of a sudden had to play outfield in the Major Leagues. That was a tall task for anyone, yet alone Hamilton. Hamilton will get better with more experience. Dunn won't.

    Hopper's other numbers: In Center Field: Range Factor of 3.28 and Zone Rating of .905
    Hamilton in Center Field: Range Factor of 2.81 and Zone Rating of .870
    Freel in Center Field: Range Factor of 2.68 and Zone Rating of .842

    Hopper's numbers in Right Field: Range Factor of 3.18 and Zone Rating of .857
    Griffey's Range Factor is .207 and Zone Rating is .819
    Hamilton's Range Factor in Right Field is 3.11 and Zone Rating is .900

    Hopper obviously has exceptional numbers, but these only tell half the story of defense. You get the other half through watching him in person, and those that see him "in person", not on TV, get the whole picture of just how much ground he covers, and how runners are shocked at how quickly he gets to a ball, thus his ability to get the assist as they underestimate how much time they have to get to the next base.

    Hopper's a valuable weapon defensively for the REDS and saves many a run for the pitchers, who have to love it when he's playing behind them.
    Rob Neyer: "Any writer who says he'd be a better manager than the worst manager is either 1) lying (i.e. 'using poetic license') or 2) patently delusional. Which isn't to say managers don't do stupid things that you or I wouldn't."

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    CELEBRATION TIME RBA's Avatar
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    Re: Dunns talks to Mackanin

    Thanks for the numbers ED, but most fans of baseball can tell with their own two eyes the rankings of the Reds outfield. It's really a simple matter.

  13. #12
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Dunns talks to Mackanin

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Madden View Post
    Dunn just doesn't care, he sucks in LF, he's not a clutch hitter, he's got a terrible batting average with runners in scoring position, hits meaningless HRs and strikes out too much.

    Great Baseball Minds such as Marty Brennamen, Bad Fundamentals and Prose see all these things, we could learn something from them if only we pay attention.

    Eric_Davis posted some nice numbers that support what Pete Mack is doing; I have no problem with Dunn coming out at the end of games for defensive purposes. But I'd wait till the 9th,, in games the Reds are winning.

    As for what is written above, by Ron Madden, well, I have a little story to tell. Last night we convened "Man Club" (well, that's what my daughters call it anyway) in my hot tub, cigars, a few beers, and Marty on the radio. We sat there for an hour, and it coincided with Freels' Hr and the Weathers closing out the game.

    Now my buddies know I am a diehard fan, and also conceded that I know more baseball than they do; they are casual fans. But what I heard from them blew me away, and reinforced everything I read here.

    "Adam Dunn is awful, he's the worst defender in baseball, he absolutely cannot hit unless the Reds are way behind or way in front, they need to get rid of him. Ryan Freel is the best leadoff man in the game. He's like Pete Rose. Why hasn't he won any Gold Gloves- that's a travesty right there. If we had a lineup full of guys like him, it'd be great. Norris Hopper should be playing LF every day instead of Adam Dunn. Dave Ross is just in a little slump, he'll be OK. When they trade Junior away, he'll probably move back to CF, which is his best position. The Reds pitching is much better this year than it's been in quite some time. Jerry Narron was a huge jerk. At Redsfest, we stood in line waiting to get his autograph, and then he left when his cell phone rang. Man, I can't believe what a jerk that guy was, I'm glad he got fired."

    Well, I was nearly speechless, and tried to refute all of these assertions with true facts, but was outvoted- majority rules. I was told Marty Brennaman has seen far more baseball than I have, and if he says something is true, then by Golly, it is. Now, other than the Narron story at Redsfest, this is what you hear from the average Reds fan. Jerry is a lot of things, a very pedestrian manager certainly, but is absolutely NOT a jerk. This was just one guy's story, though. He was just pissed that he didn't get an autograph when he wanted it.

    Where do they get this info? From the radio. From the TV. Most Reds fans get their opinions from Marty, JB, Thom, George and Chris. Most Reds fans are casual fans of the game, who are actually ignorant of what is really going on. I tried to explain how Freel's OBP is abysmal, and how all that diving around leads to more triples than anything, and how getting picked off is really a bad thing, and I was literally shouted down. I sat there, smoked the rest of my stogie, and thought about it some more.

    The broadcast crew has a responsibility to get things right. This involves the use of stats to decide who is awful and who isn't.

    These guys do more than just tell a story; they shape opinion, too. They have a responsibility to get it right, and support their own opinions with fact.
    Last edited by Always Red; 07-20-2007 at 09:20 AM.

  14. #13
    My clutch is broken RichRed's Avatar
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    Re: Dunns talks to Mackanin

    "I understand a lot of situations. I've got it. I'm not dumb," Dunn said. "We just talked about some situations. [In a] one-run game, I've got it. Sometimes, though, in the seventh inning, there's a lot of game left."
    Dunn's right - he's not dumb. How many times has he been pulled from a game with a lead only to watch the bullpen lose it and then watch far inferior hitters like Hopper (or Freel the other day) get the ABs he should be getting to try to win the game late? I'm sure it's frustrating.

    Unless there's about a 10-run lead with this bullpen, I take my chances with Dunn in left and his bat in the lineup.
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    Re: Dunns talks to Mackanin

    Quote Originally Posted by RichRed View Post
    How many times has he been pulled from a game with a lead only to watch the bullpen lose it and then watch far inferior hitters like Hopper (or Freel the other day) get the ABs he should be getting to try to win the game late? I'm sure it's frustrating.
    B-R's gamelogs says they've only lost one game that he's been removed from this season.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi...1=dunnad01&t=b

    April 19th vs. the Astros when he was removed before the 8th in a double switch with the Reds up 6-2. In that game, his position in the lineup didn't come around again and they lost 8-6.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/bo...00704190.shtml
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  16. #15
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Dunns talks to Mackanin

    I don't know why; but does anybody else think this statement by Pete is hilarious? I keep getting this image of him standing well behind the desk and out of reach while he makes it to Adam....

    "'It's not that I think you're a bad outfielder,'" Mackanin said he told Dunn. "'Hopper is going to get to more balls and has better range. It's that easy. It's not that we think you're going to drop balls.'"
    I guess if I had a guy 6' 6" and 266 lbs standing in my office I wouldn't tell him he was a bad OFer who sometimes demonstates the poise and agility of a 3 legged cow!

    But it makes one wonder why he doesn't do late inning defensive substitutions for Jr in RF, because Jr has definitely lost range IMO.
    Last edited by GAC; 07-20-2007 at 10:01 AM.
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