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Thread: Trade Rumors Aplenty (Long)

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    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Trade Rumors Aplenty (Long)

    This from Marty's favorite Red Sox fan, but not really.

    Don't expect race-altering moves
    posted: Friday, July 20, 2007

    The three powers of the National League East are so empowered, so tightly wound, that one Doyle Alexander deal could win the division, not to mention deals involving a Joe Blanton or Roy Oswalt or Jon Garland. But a 1998 Randy Johnson is not going to show up in any storefront, and -- barring a purse as high as the Carlos Guillen/Freddy Garcia swag the Mariners extracted from Houston for the two-month rights to Johnson -- neither is Blanton, Oswalt, Garland nor any other significant starter. The starting pitchers whom contenders are scouting are Matt Morris, Jason Jennings, Kyle Lohse, Scott Elarton, Steve Traschel and Jose Contreras, and it isn't pretty; scouts from a half-dozen teams were in to see Jennings in Washington Wednesday. He threw 83-86 mph, allowed five runs in five innings and is 1-6, 4.76 for the season ... with another year on the contract. So while the Mets, Braves, Phillies, Red Sox, Dodgers and Padres would like a starter, nothing race-changing is likely to occur. And while the Astros convene next week to decide whether or not to weigh their options on Brad Lidge, Chad Qualls and Dan Wheeler, while the Rangers continue to market Eric Gagne and Akinori Otsuka, while the Pirates shop disgruntled Salomon Torres and the Royals take bids on Octavio Dotel, what general managers like Omar Minaya, Pat Gillick, Dave Dombrowski and Mark Shapiro won't do is make a deal similar to Jeff Bagwell for Larry Andersen. "I don't know of anyone who will trade a potential impact everyday player for a relief pitcher, especially one who isn't a dominant closer," says Minaya. Another contending GM says, "I don't blame Dayton Moore for trying to rebuild, but he wants a major league-ready positional player for Dotel." Hey, what outsiders don't understand is ownership pressure. Drayton McLane has to sign off on rebuilding before Astros GM Tim Purpura can even begin to market Lidge, who could mean the World Series to Detroit, Cleveland, Boston or the Mets. Those kinds of pressures are on Moore, Wayne Krivsky in Cincinnati, Jon Daniels in Texas and Andrew Friedman in Tampa Bay, pressures no one else knows who hasn't sat in their chairs in buildings operated by their respective owners. As odd as it may seem, Brian Cashman in many ways is the most relaxed of the GM bunch. On Friday morning, the Yankees are six games behind the Indians in the loss column for the wild card and seven games behind the Red Sox in the AL East (in New England, that's Anxt Legion), and Cashman on Wednesday took a leisurely drive to Trenton, N.J., to watch Philip Hughes. Cashman is looking to add a first baseman if it isn't Shea Hillenbrand, find someone to take Kyle Farnsworth, maybe move a Scott Proctor for depth (the NY Post has been on Wilson Betemit), and await the reconstruction of the Yankee pitching staff. "Unfortunately for the rest of us," says one AL executive, "the most important addition before the trading deadline will be Hughes." Cashman watched Hughes dominate on Wednesday, and will give him a couple of starts at Scranton to build up his pitch count and arm strength. And as Hughes fits in with Chien-Ming Wang, Roger Clemens, Mike Mussina and Andy Pettitte, he is not the only key piece that may fit in place for the final six to eight weeks of the season. There is a possibility that the Yankees will bring fellow Trentonian Joba Chamberlain up to audition for the Joel Zumaya role, and as he gets healthy, Ross Ohlendorf may soon be ready to fit in the middle of the bullpen as well. Before suffering a back injury, Ohlendorf -- who pitched with Chris Young for Scott Bradley at Princeton -- looked as if he could be a first-rate middle reliever after coming over from Arizona in the Johnson deal. But Chamberlain has now become the talk of the game. The Yanks' second pick in the 2006 draft out of Nebraska has drawn comparisons to a cross between Zumaya and Bobby Jenks as a reliever, and Justin Verlander as a starter. He's 8-1 with 108 strikeouts in 74 2/3 innings between Tampa and Trenton. "He's 95-99 for seven innings as a starter," says one scout. "He has Verlander stuff, but if it fell apart, he'd still be Jonathan Broxton." Oh. It may be that the minor leagues, not the majors, are where the pitchers who impact races come from. Boston has already changed its rotation with Kason Gabbard and the bullpen with Manny Delcarmen, and may go to Clay Buchholz soon as another bullpen alternative once Curt Schilling gets back into the rotation. Buchholz's biggest question at this point is the command of his fastball, but he has big-time swing-and-miss pitches with his curveball and changeup, and that stuff may play very successfully in the bullpen as he prepares for the 2008 rotation. Just look at the National League East, where there are three very good position teams with general managers with long trade résumés who have been searching for starting pitching for six weeks. This is where those starters sat Friday morning: TEAM W-L ERA QS Mets 39-35 3.98 56 Braves 34-36 4.42 49 Phillies 35-35 5.13 48 Minaya will not even discuss trading Lastings Milledge unless he is guaranteed some proven starter. Instead, he's waiting on the return of Pedro Martinez. The Braves will deal kids, but not Jarrod Saltalamacchia or Yunel Escobar, to find someone to fill in at the end of the rotation; John Smoltz, Tim Hudson, Chuck James and Buddy Carlyle are 31-19, but the other starters are an ugly 4-17, 6.41. The Phillies have tried a number of alternatives, even throwing Aaron Rowand's name around with Michael Bourn lurking, but they have yet to find any reasonable alternative, and they're hoping the bullpen returns of Tom Gordon and Brett Myers restore order. The problem is that none of those NL East teams appear to have minor league help on the horizons. And where the Yankees now can look within, the price for the Mets, Braves and Phillies might exceed reality.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

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  3. #2
    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Rumors Aplenty (Long)

    I don't think anyone on the planet will be shocked to see Lohse moved, for next to nothing.

    Championships for MY teams in my lifetime:
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    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Rumors Aplenty (Long)

    Another snippet regarding Jr.

    http://http://redsox.bostonherald.co...icleid=1012187

    The Reds. Sure, Ken Griffey Jr. would look nice in that No. 5 hole, but he is also signed for next year ($12.5 million) and has had lots of injury problems. Still, Cincinnati is always looking to move money and might have some interest in the cost-controlled Coco Crisp [stats], as well as prospects.

    The Reds also have bullpen help to move in David Weathers, but can’t the Sox do better?
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

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    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Rumors Aplenty (Long)

    My favorite rumor is Harang for Wlad Balentien, Jeff Clement and Carlos Triunfel.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    getting younger alloverjr's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Rumors Aplenty (Long)

    I wouldn't expect much from the Reds. With a few exceptions like Harang and Phillips, there isn't much on the Reds that other teams would want or at least give up much for. Sure, Weathers may be dealt as could Dunn, Griffey, Lohse or Hatteburg, but I don't see a lot of quality coming back in return. Krivisky, if he gets the chance, is going to make his career during the coming off season.
    This place use to be fun

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Rumors Aplenty (Long)

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    My favorite rumor is Harang for Wlad Balentien, Jeff Clement and Carlos Triunfel.
    That better be a rumor you started or someone not in the media started or I might go hang myself.

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    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Rumors Aplenty (Long)

    How about Ryan Freel to Boston for Justin Masterson 22 yr old AA RH GB machine. The guy averages 75% GB's, his Major League Comp is likely Derek Lowe.

    Just something I just came up with, he would make for an excellent addition to that team IMO.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

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    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Rumors Aplenty (Long)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    How about Ryan Freel to Boston for Justin Masterson 22 yr old AA RH GB machine. The guy averages 75% GB's, his Major League Comp is likely Derek Lowe.

    Just something I just came up with, he would make for an excellent addition to that team IMO.
    I could live with that. If Krivsky could pull that off I would give all of his naked pictures back.
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

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    You're soaking in it! MartyFan's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Rumors Aplenty (Long)

    Actually with the market being what it is for RP, the deals done this year may make "THE TRADE" look not so far fetched...it already doesn't too me...but that is :deadhorse
    "Sometimes, it's not the sexiest moves that put you over the top," Krivsky said. "It's a series of transactions that help you get there."

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    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Rumors Aplenty (Long)

    Those kinds of pressures are on...Wayne Krivsky in Cincinnati
    Maybe so; but I think the pressure may be more on those teams (GMs) that are looking for that player(s) to acquire in the second half to "put them over the top."

    They have a trading deadline to meet too.

    Here's where the "rubber meets the road" Wayne, and tests your salt as a GM - capitalize on that if you can. But sometimes no trade is better then simply making a trade.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Rumors Aplenty (Long)

    Quote Originally Posted by MartyFan View Post
    Actually with the market being what it is for RP, the deals done this year may make "THE TRADE" look not so far fetched...it already doesn't too me...but that is :deadhorse
    The "market" for RP has never been what Wayne believes it was. That's the part that has always killed me.

  13. #12
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Rumors Aplenty (Long)

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    Here's where the "rubber meets the road" Wayne, and tests your salt as a GM - capitalize on that if you can. But sometimes no trade is better then simply making a trade.
    I won't really blame Wayne if he doesn't end up moving anyone, I think Bob has given orders to win or else.

    Now if Wayne deals tradable parts off for bunk, then he's to blame
    Go Gators!

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    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Rumors Aplenty (Long)

    As soon as Lohse begins to have some trade value, he immediately pitches his way out of it. Actually, I am still hopeful the Reds will get something decent in return for him at the last minute (all it takes is one!) but I am becoming less optimistic by the minute.

    What a difference a year makes. Last year at this time the Reds were dealing starting pitching prospects like Germano for over-the-hill relivers like Cormier (who did have a sub-2.00 ERA at the time, but his career stats indicated that was an abberation). This year, we can't get any takers for a decent arm like Lohse who could be a No. 5 starter for a team in the race.

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    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Rumors Aplenty (Long)

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    This year, we can't get any takers for a decent arm like Lohse who could be a No. 5 starter for a team in the race.

    The trade deadline is about 10 days away. I wouldn't have expected any movement untill then anyway. The fact he hasn't be traded yet is pretty meaningless.

  16. #15
    Member redsrule2500's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Rumors Aplenty (Long)

    A lot of quality won't come back because they think Kriv will bite early.

    He needs to HOLD OUT as long as possible!
    redsrule2500
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