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Thread: Make trades already

  1. #1
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    Make trades already

    Just change this team already. People will say, "don't change for the sake of change." But we've seen the same basic group for years and it is going no place. A few good minor leaguers due to arrive soon aren't nearly enough to fix this. They don't spend for major free agents, so trades are essential.

    I don't care which direction they go. Trades for youth. Trades for veterans. Presumably, the Reds brass are in a good position to make that decision.

    But standing pat is unacceptable. I will be disappointed if they do nothing at the deadline.

    Of course, Reds can delay until the winter. But I was following things last winter and didn't see a single major pitching acquisition. I liked the Gonzo signing, but the off-season was just more patching things up. And we had the GM's declaration this winter that he was comfortable with Milton and Lohse at the 3 and 4 pitching slots.

    You can debate the virtues of individual players. Dunn, EE, Freel, Weathers, Griffey, etc. are debated all the time. It doesn't matter who is right about these guys and others. Nobody has been able to make this group win, time for some real change and something new.
    Last edited by Kc61; 07-22-2007 at 11:53 AM.

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    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: Make trades already

    I agree with you about wanting to see a different mix. However, I don't want to see us splurge on the FA market. How many times do free agent pitcher's actually pay off? It's not often. I'd rather develop through our system, and once those pieces are in place, fill in any other pieces that might be missing through free agency.

  4. #3
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: Make trades already

    The only problem with trading right now is that media reports indicate that contending clubs, who normally would be trading partners with the Reds this trading season, seem unwilling to part with any significant prospects. They want to keep their young, cheap players in the fold.

    I think that the Reds may trade Lohse, one (but not both) of the first basemen, and possibly Weathers and/or Stanton, but I would be surprised if there is much more action than that--not because the Reds don't want to trade, but because the contenders seem unwilling to give anything up in return.
    Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet ya.

  5. #4
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: Make trades already

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Just change this team already. People will say, "don't change for the sake of change."
    I couldn't disagree more with the notion of making trades for the sake of "doing something." Many of the Reds who others (maybe you?) would have traded for a bag of baseballs a month ago are turning their seasons around. That could make them easier to trade and it can't help but improve the return on a deal involving those same players.

    Unloading a player for a sub-optimal return might make you happy, but it will lead to at least a year of teeth-gnashing here in the ORG. The Reds can do better. I'd like to see a trade that builds for the future rather than a trade that placates the anti-inertia fans. From the deal proposals that are leaking out, it sounds like Wayne is asking for the moon. There's still enough time remaining until the deadline that he might get it.
    /r/reds

  6. #5
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    Re: Make trades already

    They don't want to trade prospects?

    Make lateral, MLB-for-MLB, trades, then. Don't worry about getting younger as an end in itself. Just get different and better.

  7. #6
    GO XAVIER! toledodan's Avatar
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    Re: Make trades already

    hatteburg or connine must be moved to get votto playing time everyday this season. while votto should be the starting at first opening day in 2008 there is no reason not to get his feet wet now. as much as i dislike the tigers they bit the bullet with their young players added a couple of free agent pitchers and made the world series. i'm not saying i would like to watch the reds lose 119 games but we need to let these young players develope here if the FO isn't willing to spend the money(100 million or more) to compete.
    there's nothing like bowling a 300 game! 13 now and retired.


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  8. #7
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    Re: Make trades already

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu View Post
    The only problem with trading right now is that media reports indicate that contending clubs, who normally would be trading partners with the Reds this trading season, seem unwilling to part with any significant prospects. They want to keep their young, cheap players in the fold.

    I think that the Reds may trade Lohse, one (but not both) of the first basemen, and possibly Weathers and/or Stanton, but I would be surprised if there is much more action than that--not because the Reds don't want to trade, but because the contenders seem unwilling to give anything up in return.
    And how, exactly, do they ever get back to winning? Waiting for the next Homer Bailey to be rushed up and have a 6 plus ERA? Compiling 5 good drafts and taking a renewed look in 20012? Picking up a couple of leftover, cheap free agents nobody wants late in the winter?

    Sorry, I don't buy it. One reason the Reds may not get top value is that their players may not command top returns. Keep in mind, this outfit is about 20 games under .500. A good front office looks at its talent objectively.

    A good front office can move some pieces and help this team for next year and the year after. Or, make salary cuts with a clear view of using that money next winter for better players, or players at key positions. But sitting still is just not acceptable. Taking the slow, long view of slight changes here and there just will not work.

    And I wouldn't be too worried that the new players may not pan out. What's going to happen -- the Reds won't contend in the Central?
    Last edited by Kc61; 07-22-2007 at 12:35 PM.

  9. #8
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    Re: Make trades already

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Don't worry about getting younger as an end in itself. Just get different and better.
    Different and better are not necessarily synonymous.

    Rem

  10. #9
    Member redsrule2500's Avatar
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    Re: Make trades already

    Last year we were too early, this year too late lol
    redsrule2500
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  11. #10
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Make trades already

    I used to work with a guy who said you could get any two results from this list:

    Good
    Cheap
    Fast

    at the expense of the other. Given that the Reds are "cheap" (in the scheme of things) and want to be "good", its not gonna be "fast". If you want to be "good" "fast", its not gonna be cheap.

    Right now, we have cheap and...well, we have cheap.

  12. #11
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    Re: Make trades already

    I still think this team's core is pretty good. We need to sell some of the older parts like Weathers, Conine, Hatte etc... tho... I think its a matter of the young guys developping into impact players ie Bailey, Votto, Cuento

  13. #12
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    Re: Make trades already

    Quote Originally Posted by remdog View Post
    Different and better are not necessarily synonymous.

    Rem
    Of course not. But in order for the team to get better, it must necessarily follow that it get different. The current recipe is noxious.

  14. #13
    Kmac5 KoryMac5's Avatar
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    Re: Make trades already

    Weathers, Connine, Hatte, Lohse (if you can), and JR should all be dealt by the deadline. It would be nice if Stanton can find a new home as well. These trades make you younger and hopefully better. In the case of Weathers, JR, and Hatte it is selling while their value is at its highest.
    If you have a losing record at Reds games, please stop going.

  15. #14
    Go Reds Go! UKFlounder's Avatar
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    Re: Make trades already

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Of course not. But in order for the team to get better, it must necessarily follow that it get different. The current recipe is noxious.
    But to get "different" just to be "different" - as the original poster suggested - is just as likely to make the team worse. "More noxious" would technically be different, but nobody here would like that, though this thread seemed to start with the assumption that different would be the same as better.

    Clearly, getting "better" is what we all want, but that seems a lot easier said than done.

  16. #15
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    Re: Make trades already

    Quote Originally Posted by UKFlounder View Post
    But to get "different" just to be "different" - as the original poster suggested - is just as likely to make the team worse. "More noxious" would technically be different, but nobody here would like that, though this thread seemed to start with the assumption that different would be the same as better.

    Clearly, getting "better" is what we all want, but that seems a lot easier said than done.
    There's only one guarantee: standing pat = no improvement.

    The only way to get BETTER is to get, as I said, different and better. One does not presuppose the other; maybe it's a redundancy on my part that's confusing folks. So I'll just say: get better.


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