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Thread: Complaints about Dunn. Not related to K's or D.

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    Complaints about Dunn. Not related to K's or D.

    For all the spring training talk about how Adam Dunn was going to change his
    approach to hitting, I just don't see it. I would make him sit down and watch one of the tapes of Hatteberg hitting. (yeah, I know they don't really have tape anymore) Hatteberg just flips that outside pitch down the left field line or into the hole. It's to the point where pitchers don't throw him a pitch on the outside of the plate because it's pretty much a sure single. If Dunn would learn to do that, he would be better than Pujols. Instead he has to hit everything to the right side. It's really tiresome.I don't mind the K's, but this is just painful to watch.
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    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Complaints about Dunn. Not related to K's or D.

    Quote Originally Posted by dfs View Post
    For all the spring training talk about how Adam Dunn was going to change his
    approach to hitting, I just don't see it. I would make him sit down and watch one of the tapes of Hatteberg hitting. (yeah, I know they don't really have tape anymore) Hatteberg just flips that outside pitch down the left field line or into the hole. It's to the point where pitchers don't throw him a pitch on the outside of the plate because it's pretty much a sure single. If Dunn would learn to do that, he would be better than Pujols. Instead he has to hit everything to the right side. It's really tiresome.I don't mind the K's, but this is just painful to watch.
    Ya. Just the other day I was thinking that Dunn would be a much better hitter if he gave up roughly 20 pts of OBP and 100 pts of SLG for his career.

    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Member Spitball's Avatar
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    Re: Complaints about Dunn. Not related to K's or D.

    Quote Originally Posted by dfs View Post
    For all the spring training talk about how Adam Dunn was going to change his
    approach to hitting, I just don't see it. I would make him sit down and watch one of the tapes of Hatteberg hitting. (yeah, I know they don't really have tape anymore) Hatteberg just flips that outside pitch down the left field line or into the hole. It's to the point where pitchers don't throw him a pitch on the outside of the plate because it's pretty much a sure single. If Dunn would learn to do that, he would be better than Pujols. Instead he has to hit everything to the right side. It's really tiresome.I don't mind the K's, but this is just painful to watch.
    I see your point. If Dunn could protect against certain pitches, he could be a better hitter. You are right.
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    Re: Complaints about Dunn. Not related to K's or D.

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Ya. Just the other day I was thinking that Dunn would be a much better hitter if he gave up roughly 20 pts of OBP and 100 pts of SLG for his career.

    I don't think his slugging would really go down much. He is strong like bull, not like Hatteberg. Also, he didn't say swing at more either, so his OBP could actually go up. I know you gave a smiley there, but I still felt like it was half serious.

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Complaints about Dunn. Not related to K's or D.

    Let's not confuse willingness for ability. You don't see Bronson Arroyo trying to blow fastballs past guys and you don't see Dave Ross bunting for hits.

    I agree 100% that if Dunn could flip the outside pitch to left field he would be a better hitter. I also think that if he were able to that with any reliability, he would.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 07-23-2007 at 11:57 PM.
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    Re: Complaints about Dunn. Not related to K's or D.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Let's not confuse willingness for ability. You don't see Bronson Arroyo trying to blow fastballs past guys and you don't see Dave Ross bunting for hits.

    I agree 100% that if Dunn could flip the outside pitch to left field he would be a better hitter. I also think that if he were able to that with any reliability, he would.
    You see it every once in a while though. We've seen good controlled 2 handed swings from him the last month, so as the scouts say, you only need to see it once to know it is in there.

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    Re: Complaints about Dunn. Not related to K's or D.

    I understand the sentiment because I enjoy watching Hatteberg hit more than I do Dunn...but my eyes are simply wrong in this case (I realize we were simply talking about the "poke it to left field" scenario)

    Under every conceivable scenario, this year and for career, Dunn has been more effective than Hatteberg:

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/bas...ng_splits.html (Dunn's '07 splits)

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/bas...ng_splits.html (Hatteberg's '07 splits)

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    Re: Complaints about Dunn. Not related to K's or D.

    Hatteberg may have the bets approach to hitting that I have ever seen. It's very rare that he swings at a pitch that he doesn't think he can hit. He has tremendous vision of the strikezone, and he knows what pitches he can hit.

    I would say that just about any hitter could learn from Hatteberg's game. Whether that would improve Dunn or not is a different matter, but if there is anyone who gets the most out of their abilities, it is Hatteberg. If Hatteberg had Dunn's power, he would be an amazing hitter. Probably Pujols-esque. He just doesn' have the top end ability.

    Down the road, I would love Hatteberg to be the Reds hitting coach. His approach to hitting is absolutely top notch. He goes up to the plate simply looking for pitches that he can hit. If he can't the hit the pitch he let's it go by. It's not that he goes up the plate with the thought of going for walks, it's that he is more than willing to take them given the opportunity. As I said, his ability to recognize pitch location is really second to none IMO.

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    White Castle to the Nile Crash Davis's Avatar
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    Re: Complaints about Dunn. Not related to K's or D.

    Adam Dunn. Such a lightning rod on this site and in this city.

    I don't remember being more excited about a player coming through the minors than I was about Adam Dunn. I don't remember being more at odds with a whole fan base than I've been with Adam Dunn and most of the Reds fans of the past five years. He's been one of my favorite players ever to wear a Reds uniform, and I still have trouble believing how much he's been singled out as a true problem even though he's been carrying this Reds offense since his debut.

    Still, he's without a doubt the most frustrating player to watch day-in and day-out since I've been following the Reds. I love the guy. I wouldn't trade him unless I got bowled over with a ludicrous offer. I appreciate what he offers to a team. But, damn, he could be so much better. He could be so much smarter as a hitter. My biggest problem with Adam Dunn isn't "strikeouts" or "defense", per se. It's that he's actually regressed in every phase of the game since his rookie season. I always expected him to build on his impressive debut, and continue to grow as a player. I was wrong.

    Not only has Dunn regressed as an overall talent, but he still has the same achilles heal he had five years ago: he refuses to hit situationally. This isn't a matter of talent to take an outside pitch the other way, or skill to protect the strikezone. It's strictly mindset. Good baseball players hit to the situation every time. You go up to the plate with a plan in mind, and you do not resolve to hit a HR every time...just ask Andruw Jones. There are times for walks, there are times where it makes every bit of sense to swing from the heels, and there are times to protect the plate. Adam Dunn does not change his approach, and the larger problem is that he does have the talent to do so. Sure, it gets over-emphasized by George Grande, and the ESPN houseboys get the memo every year to hand-wring it all seaosn, but it's true: you have to hit situationally to win baseball games. There's simply no denying it.

    Adam Dunn is a tremendous offensive force...as well as my favorite Red since Eric Davis. But he hasn't given himself a fair chance to improve as a hitter.
    Last edited by Crash Davis; 07-24-2007 at 01:43 AM.
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    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Complaints about Dunn. Not related to K's or D.

    If Player #1 could only be like player #2.

    We would have two Player #2's and cease to possess Player #1.

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    Re: Complaints about Dunn. Not related to K's or D.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crash Davis View Post
    Adam Dunn. Such a lightning rod on this site and in this city.

    I don't remember being more excited about a player coming through the minors than I was about Adam Dunn. I don't remember being more at odds with a whole fan base than I've been with Adam Dunn and most of the Reds fans of the past five years. He's been one of my favorite players ever to wear a Reds uniform, and I still have trouble believing how much he's been singled out as a true problem even though he's been carrying this Reds offense since his debut.

    Still, he's without a doubt the most frustrating player to watch day-in and day-out since I've been following the Reds. I love the guy. I wouldn't trade him unless I got bowled over with a ludicrous offer. I appreciate what he offers to a team. But, damn, he could be so much better. He could be so much smarter as a hitter. My biggest problem with Adam Dunn isn't "strikeouts" or "defense", per se. It's that he's actually regressed in every phase of the game since his rookie season. I always expected him to build on his impressive debut, and continue to grow as a player. I was wrong.

    Not only has Dunn regressed as an overall talent, but he still has the same achilles heal he had five years ago: he refuses to hit situationally. This isn't a matter of talent to take an outside pitch the other way, or skill to protect the strikezone. It's strictly mindset. Good baseball players hit to the situation every time. You go up to the plate with a plan in mind, and you do not resolve to hit a HR every time...just ask Andruw Jones. There are times for walks, there are times where it makes every bit of sense to swing from the heels, and there are times to protect the plate. Adam Dunn does not change his approach, and the larger problem is that he does have the talent to do so. Sure, it gets over-emphasized by George Grande, and the ESPN houseboys get the memo every year to hand-wring it all seaosn, but it's true: you have to hit situationally to win baseball games. There's simply no denying it.

    Adam Dunn is a tremendous offensive force...as well as my favorite Red since Eric Davis. But he hasn't given himself a fair chance to improve as a hitter.

    I like Dunn's approach at the plate, he waits for a pitch he can drive and let's the ones he can't hit hard pass. Sometimes he gets fooled and and takes good pitches.

    Why swing at something you can't do anything with?

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    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Complaints about Dunn. Not related to K's or D.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crash Davis View Post
    Adam Dunn. Such a lightning rod on this site and in this city.

    I don't remember being more excited about a player coming through the minors than I was about Adam Dunn. I don't remember being more at odds with a whole fan base than I've been with Adam Dunn and most of the Reds fans of the past five years. He's been one of my favorite players ever to wear a Reds uniform, and I still have trouble believing how much he's been singled out as a true problem even though he's been carrying this Reds offense since his debut.

    Still, he's without a doubt the most frustrating player to watch day-in and day-out since I've been following the Reds. I love the guy. I wouldn't trade him unless I got bowled over with a ludicrous offer. I appreciate what he offers to a team. But, damn, he could be so much better. He could be so much smarter as a hitter. My biggest problem with Adam Dunn isn't "strikeouts" or "defense", per se. It's that he's actually regressed in every phase of the game since his rookie season. I always expected him to build on his impressive debut, and continue to grow as a player. I was wrong.

    Not only has Dunn regressed as an overall talent, but he still has the same achilles heal he had five years ago: he refuses to hit situationally. This isn't a matter of talent to take an outside pitch the other way, or skill to protect the strikezone. It's strictly mindset. Good baseball players hit to the situation every time. You go up to the plate with a plan in mind, and you do not resolve to hit a HR every time...just ask Andruw Jones. There are times for walks, there are times where it makes every bit of sense to swing from the heels, and there are times to protect the plate. Adam Dunn does not change his approach, and the larger problem is that he does have the talent to do so. Sure, it gets over-emphasized by George Grande, and the ESPN houseboys get the memo every year to hand-wring it all seaosn, but it's true: you have to hit situationally to win baseball games. There's simply no denying it.

    Adam Dunn is a tremendous offensive force...as well as my favorite Red since Eric Davis. But he hasn't given himself a fair chance to improve as a hitter.
    Really good post, Crash.
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    Re: Complaints about Dunn. Not related to K's or D.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvesIce51 View Post
    I don't think his slugging would really go down much. He is strong like bull, not like Hatteberg. Also, he didn't say swing at more either, so his OBP could actually go up. I know you gave a smiley there, but I still felt like it was half serious.
    I know what youre suggesting seems like an easy thing. But truthfully, I think it's just not that easy for a 27 year old to effectively change his approach at the plate without risking a negative effect on his production.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Complaints about Dunn. Not related to K's or D.

    If he would work at it, maybe his production would go up.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

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    Re: Complaints about Dunn. Not related to K's or D.

    It was a long time ago, and there was no such thing as message boards and sports talk radio or ESPN, but I seem to remember hearing similar complaints about Reggie Jackson when he was a Yankee.

    Those three homeruns against the Dodgers stopped most of that and he became a Yankee legend.


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