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Thread: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

  1. #151
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by boognish View Post
    Berkman is having a bad season...but Dunn "fails miserably" over a seven-week stretch and you would prefer Conine over Dunn.

    I am thankful that who you "want to see" has no bearing on how the Reds make personnel decisions.

    What is wrong with the walk? It is not as good as a hit in many situations, but it fullfills the batter's primary goal in ALL situations: do not make an out.
    I hate to say this, but Berkman's "terrible season" looks alot like Dunn's season, w/ a few less home runs.

    Berkman now: .257, 15, 61, OBP .379, OPS .810, 62 bb, 80 k's
    Dunn now: .269, 27, 63, OBP .371, OPS .922, 56 bb, 120 k's.

    The difference isn't that much, w/ Dunn having a career year and Berkman having the worst of his career.
    Variatio delectat - Cicero

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  3. #152
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by improbus View Post
    I hate to say this, but Berkman's "terrible season" looks alot like Dunn's season, w/ a few less home runs.

    Berkman now: .257, 15, 61, OBP .379, OPS .810, 62 bb, 80 k's
    Dunn now: .269, 27, 63, OBP .371, OPS .922, 56 bb, 120 k's.

    The difference isn't that much, w/ Dunn having a career year and Berkman having the worst of his career.
    Now someone will ignore your point and say you arent using stats to support any claims you make.

  4. #153
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by improbus View Post
    I hate to say this, but Berkman's "terrible season" looks alot like Dunn's season, w/ a few less home runs.

    Berkman now: .257, 15, 61, OBP .379, OPS .810, 62 bb, 80 k's
    Dunn now: .269, 27, 63, OBP .371, OPS .922, 56 bb, 120 k's.

    The difference isn't that much, w/ Dunn having a career year and Berkman having the worst of his career.
    First, this isn't Dunn career year. See 2004 for that.

    Second, Berkman is an upper echelon hitter. His "terrible" season will always look decent, all things considered, because he is too talented to have a Castro-esqe terrible season.

    Thirdly, Muggerd, you see Berkman's high OBP? Looks to me like he is taking a lot of walks. I'm sure tha Astro fans are real upset though.

  5. #154
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Muggerd View Post
    His OPS is high you know why? because he walks. Walking with runners on base does nothing. Why the heck are you ok with your power RBI guy being happy with walks? Do you think cardinal and astro fans are happy when thier RBI guys walk? Hell no they want them to get the bat on the ball and drive those runners in.
    Whether they are your preferred method or no, walks are a vital part of successful offense. A player who walks a lot would optimally be utilized in such a fashion that his high OBP is advantageous, not hitting in front of Gonzo, Castro, Moeller, and Ross.

    Also, just because Carlos Lee happens to fit your archetype of a middle of the order hitter because of' his low walk rate does not make him the gold standard "RBI guy." Jim Thome, Travis Hafner, Manny Ramirez, Bob Abreu, Barry Bonds, Frank Thomas, Todd Helton, Carlos Beltran, and Jason Giambi are all "RBI men" who walk a lot. Dunn, deployed correctly, is an asset to any lineup. Not passing your presupposed requirements does not render him a non-productive player.

  6. #155
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Muggerd View Post
    His OPS is high you know why? because he walks. Walking with runners on base does nothing. Why the heck are you ok with your power RBI guy being happy with walks? Do you think cardinal and astro fans are happy when thier RBI guys walk? Hell no they want them to get the bat on the ball and drive those runners in.
    So his home runs have nothing to do with his OPS? I'm okay with anyone taking a walk for two reasons.

    1- The pitcher throws more pitches than he would if the player popped up on the first pitch.

    2- Another guy on base and it can move one man into scoring position or two men into scoring position.
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  7. #156
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    This guy is like talking to a brick wall. He is MAD because Adam Dunn receives walks instead of swinging at pitcher's pitches (read: NOT hitters pitches).

    The reason pitchers pitch AROUND Dunn - you ever heard of the "Unintentional Intentional Walk"? - is because they DON'T want him hitting the ball. Odd concept I know.

    OPS creates runs. Swinging at pitchers pitches - TO AVOID A WALK - is MORONIC and CREATES OUTS. Simple concept. Unfortunately Muggerd is not able to grasp that.

    PEACE

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  8. #157
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Muggerd View Post
    Now someone will ignore your point and say you arent using stats to support any claims you make.
    I hope they do because I've always got more.
    Variatio delectat - Cicero

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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by improbus View Post
    I hate to say this, but Berkman's "terrible season" looks alot like Dunn's season, w/ a few less home runs.

    Berkman now: .257, 15, 61, OBP .379, OPS .810, 62 bb, 80 k's
    Dunn now: .269, 27, 63, OBP .371, OPS .922, 56 bb, 120 k's.

    The difference isn't that much, w/ Dunn having a career year and Berkman having the worst of his career.
    Hmmm...looks like Berkman's OPS is more driven by walking than is Mr. Dunn's. I suppose Dunn's OPS is over 100 points higher because of all of the meaningless home runs he hits...

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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by improbus View Post
    I hope they do because I've always got more.

    More of what? More stats that try to claim Dunn isn't a run-producer? That's like saying you have unicorns on your farm.

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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fil3232 View Post
    More of what? More stats that try to claim Dunn isn't a run-producer? That's like saying you have unicorns on your farm.
    Given that this argument has been hashed out hundreds of times on this forum, I highly anticipate the heretofore never explored evidence improbus has to offer to make his argument.

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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by boognish View Post
    Hmmm...looks like Berkman's OPS is more driven by walking than is Mr. Dunn's. I suppose Dunn's OPS is over 100 points higher because of all of the meaningless home runs he hits...
    No one is saying his home runs are meaningless

  13. #162
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Muggerd View Post
    No one is saying his home runs are meaningless

    No you are just saying his walks are meaningless and that he should start hacking like soriano.
    Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball - Jacques Barzun

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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by BLEEDS View Post
    This guy is like talking to a brick wall. He is MAD because Adam Dunn receives walks instead of swinging at pitcher's pitches (read: NOT hitters pitches).

    The reason pitchers pitch AROUND Dunn - you ever heard of the "Unintentional Intentional Walk"? - is because they DON'T want him hitting the ball. Odd concept I know.

    OPS creates runs. Swinging at pitchers pitches - TO AVOID A WALK - is MORONIC and CREATES OUTS. Simple concept. Unfortunately Muggerd is not able to grasp that.

    PEACE

    -BLEEDS
    Im upset that for some reason Dunn is the only RBI guy in the majors that acutally hits worse with RISP. That means when he doesnt walk he ends up getting out more then he does when no one is on base. My arguement is Dunn needs to learn to be able to hit pitches that are close not just take them as strikes. a .220 average is not good to me. I dont mind him walking but he flat out gets out too much when he doesnt walk.

  15. #164
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Muggerd View Post
    Im upset that for some reason Dunn is the only RBI guy in the majors that acutally hits worse with RISP. That means when he doesnt walk he ends up getting out more then he does when no one is on base. My arguement is Dunn needs to learn to be able to hit pitches that are close not just take them as strikes. a .220 average is not good to me. I dont mind him walking but he flat out gets out too much when he doesnt walk.
    now you don't mind him taking a walk. Pick a stance and stay with it. You're changing your mind more than a five year old
    Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball - Jacques Barzun

  16. #165
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fil3232 View Post
    First, this isn't Dunn career year. See 2004 for that.

    Second, Berkman is an upper echelon hitter. His "terrible" season will always look decent, all things considered, because he is too talented to have a Castro-esqe terrible season.

    Thirdly, Muggerd, you see Berkman's high OBP? Looks to me like he is taking a lot of walks. I'm sure tha Astro fans are real upset though.
    You just said the one thing I wanted to hear.

    1) you said that Berkman is an upper echelon hitter, which seems to mean that you don't think Dunn is.

    Even though it may look like it, I'm not trying to say that Dunn isn't a good player and a valuable player. I just wish we could see a few things about him. BTW, Dunn is having a year very similar to 2004 (his career year)


    But, here is what we do know about Adam Dunn:

    1) He is not a leader
    2) He is not a hitter, he is an OPS guy. And because of that:
    3) He has never really found the right spot in the lineup. He has over 390 at bats in 5 different spots, which shows that he has never really fit nicely into the lineup
    4) He doesn't play defense well
    Variatio delectat - Cicero


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