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Thread: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

  1. #46
    Senor Votto Degenerate39's Avatar
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Muggerd View Post
    You cant have it both ways here man. Good protection would mean he walks more
    Are you serious? That means they'll pitch to him to hopefully get an out so they won't have to pitch to Griffey.
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  3. #47
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fil3232 View Post
    What I think is important is producing runs. Which Dunn does, in boatloads for this team. What you think is important is a stat that may or may not even present itself in a given game. You tell me what is more logical.
    Look at the other top run producers in the league and get back to me. They all are better with people on base. Dunn gets worse. That isnt good no matter how you want to spin it. He scores runs because he has home run power while other players score runs because they have home run power and hit better when given the chance for an RBI.

    Look at lance Berkman he batted around .200 last year with no one on, and in the .320s with someone on base and he had almost 40 rbis more. And Houston scored no where near the amount of runs the reds did.

  4. #48
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by degenerate10 View Post
    Are you serious? That means they'll pitch to him to hopefully get an out so they won't have to pitch to Griffey.
    They pitch to him and guess what? He strikes out even more, and bats even worse with runners on base. You must not be understanding something here.

  5. #49
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue View Post
    Actually, like every other hitter in the history of the live ball era, Dunn's job is to get on base and slug. He does both, and does both well. Why you fault the man for creating his own rallies when no one is on base and not making outs when they are is a mystery to me.
    Because he kills rallies by getting out at a ridiculous rate... You guys all want to look at numbers but you never seem to want to compare them with anything. Building a team of Adam Dunns will not win you games.

  6. #50
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    With protection Dunn walks less and strikes out more. I think id rather have him with no protection why glorify his faults by putting him in that position?

  7. #51
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Muggerd View Post
    Sarcasm overload. You are right getting those guys from 2nd on a more consitant basis is less important than hoping for a 2 run homer or a gap shot and hoping that Phillips or Freel are standing on 1st to score.
    Does driving in a runner from 2nd base count for more than one run?

    Do you get extra credit for driving in a run depending on the circumstances?

    Does a solo homer count for one run just like a single with a man on third?

    Does batting average with RISP give the batter credit for a sac fly or a grounder to the right side? Both of those can drive in the run but don't improve the BA w/RISP.

    Which is better, a home run or a single?

    Does batting average w/RISP give you the same credit for a single and a home run?

    Did you know Adam Dunn's batting average with runners on base this season is better than with the bases empty? (.265 vs .262) Or is that not the propaganda you want to believe?

    Did you know Adam Dunn's career OPS is better with RISP than with the bases empty? Or is that also not the propaganda you want to believe?

    If you were a pitcher would you give Adam Dunn a nice pitch to hit with RISP? Or would you pitch around him to face Alex Gonzalez or Edwin Encarnacion?

    Even if you could find a way to prove Dunn isn't an RBI producer (which you can't since he gets 100+ every year), then how would you plan to denigrate his 100+ runs scored per year? Who else on the Reds scores 100 runs per year? Freel? Griffey? Hatteberg? Phillips? Nope, nope, nope and nope.

  8. #52
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Muggerd View Post
    Look at the other top run producers in the league and get back to me. They all are better with people on base. Dunn gets worse. That isnt good no matter how you want to spin it. He scores runs because he has home run power while other players score runs because they have home run power and hit better when given the chance for an RBI.

    Look at lance Berkman he batted around .200 last year with no one on, and in the .320s with someone on base and he had almost 40 rbis more. And Houston scored no where near the amount of runs the reds did.
    Its already been pointed out to you that Dunn is 7th in RBI. He does it differently. It works for him. Why screw around with it?

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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Muggerd View Post
    Because he kills rallies by getting out at a ridiculous rate... You guys all want to look at numbers but you never seem to want to compare them with anything. Building a team of Adam Dunns will not win you games.
    NO. NO HE DOES NOT. That is absolute garbage. He doesn't make an out 37.5% of the time with RISP. That's good.

  10. #54
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    Does driving in a runner from 2nd base count for more than one run?

    Do you get extra credit for driving in a run depending on the circumstances?

    Does a solo homer count for one run just like a single with a man on third?

    Does batting average with RISP give the batter credit for a sac fly or a grounder to the right side? Both of those can drive in the run but don't improve the BA w/RISP.

    Which is better, a home run or a single?

    Does batting average w/RISP give you the same credit for a single and a home run?

    Did you know Adam Dunn's batting average with runners on base this season is better than with the bases empty? (.265 vs .262) Or is that not the propaganda you want to believe?

    Did you know Adam Dunn's career OPS is better with RISP than with the bases empty? Or is that also not the propaganda you want to believe?

    If you were a pitcher would you give Adam Dunn a nice pitch to hit with RISP? Or would you pitch around him to face Alex Gonzalez or Edwin Encarnacion?

    Even if you could find a way to prove Dunn isn't an RBI producer (which you can't since he gets 100+ every year), then how would you plan to denigrate his 100+ runs scored per year? Who else on the Reds scores 100 runs per year? Freel? Griffey? Hatteberg? Phillips? Nope, nope, nope and nope.
    If only Dunn could get a sac fly he might get some more RBIs. Dunns OPS is higher because he would rather take a walk than hit with someone on base.

    If i was a Pitcher and the reds were down by 1 run and a guy was on 3rd and 2nd i would rather pitch to Dunn than Edwin yes. Sure Dunn could hit that 3 run homer but you know what hes also much more likely to get out.

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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    The only comparison I have read thus far is that Adam Dunn isn't Lance Berkman. Guess what? A very precious few in the game are. The heart of the Dunn criticism stems from exaggerrated hype and expectaions rather than actual production and evidence.

    EDIT:

    I guess it is conveniently left out that Dunn is out-pacing Berkman THIS YEAR in AVG., SLG., OPS, R, HR, RBI, and SB. But yeah, Dunn didn't have a good of year last year as one of the best hitters in baseball. Shame on him.
    Last edited by Fil3232; 07-25-2007 at 11:40 PM.

  12. #56
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue View Post
    NO. NO HE DOES NOT. That is absolute garbage. He doesn't make an out 37.5% of the time with RISP. That's good.
    He strikes out 33% of the time with someone on base, thats bad

    He never gets a sac fly, thats bad.

    He gets out more than any other top RBI in the majors with guys on base, thats bad.

  13. #57
    Senor Votto Degenerate39's Avatar
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Muggerd View Post
    With protection Dunn walks less and strikes out more. I think id rather have him with no protection why glorify his faults by putting him in that position?
    So is he going to be better with Juan Castro batting behind him or Ken Griffey Jr.?

    They'll walk him intentionally to get to Castro. With Junior behind him he has a good chance of getting a homer.
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fil3232 View Post
    The only comparison I have read thus far is that Adam Dunn isn't Lance Berkman. Guess what? A very precious few in the game are. The heart of the Dunn criticism stems from exaggerrated hype and expectaions rather than actual production and evidence.
    Exaggerated hype that you guys seem to want to push. Show me another 40 home run guy that is bad as dunn in situations with someone on base? You dont think the solo homers are replaceable with someone who is much more likely to get a runner in from 2nd? If the game only counted home runs then Dunn would be key but sadly for the Reds they also count runs that score off singles doubles and triples.

    Its not just Lance Berkman either, Look at other players who are these top RBI guys. Dunn is the worst of them all. Yet we are ready to pay more money than other guys that are better than him?

  15. #59
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Muggerd View Post
    Because he kills rallies by getting out at a ridiculous rate... You guys all want to look at numbers but you never seem to want to compare them with anything. Building a team of Adam Dunns will not win you games.
    Since you are new to the board you may not know that we actually check facts here.

    Dunn is one of the least likely of the Reds to make an out. Only Hatteberg and Griffey are less likely than Dunn to make an out. Dunn's on-base % proves that he is 3rd-most likely on the team to get on base (same as avoiding an out).

    How is that "getting out at a ridiculous rate"?

    OB%
    .406 Hatteberg
    .385 Griffey
    .365 Dunn
    .334 Encarnacion
    .327 Phillips
    .304 Freel
    .297 Gonzalez
    .247 Ross

    Hatteberg's is so high because he only plays against right-handed pitchers:
    .418 vs RH
    .280 vs LH


    Dunn's OB% actually improves with RISP:
    .360 w/ bases empty
    .371 w/ runners on base
    .368 w/ RISP
    .415 w/ RISP and 2 outs
    .333 w/ bases loaded

    That is pretty darn good. Turns out Dunn does quite well in those RBI situations doesn't it?

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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fil3232 View Post
    The only comparison I have read thus far is that Adam Dunn isn't Lance Berkman. Guess what? A very precious few in the game are. The heart of the Dunn criticism stems from exaggerrated hype and expectaions rather than actual production and evidence.

    EDIT:

    I guess it is conveniently left out that Dunn is out-pacing Berkman THIS YEAR in AVG., SLG., OPS, R, HR, RBI, and SB. But yeah, Dunn didn't have a good of year last year as one of the best hitters in baseball. Shame on him.
    Dunn is having his best year yes, i wont dispute that.


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