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Thread: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

  1. #61
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Dunn OBP means nothing to me if there are guys on 2nd and/or 3rd. Considering he walks so much.

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  3. #62
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Muggerd View Post
    Dunns OPS is higher because he would rather take a walk than hit with someone on base.
    Dunn's OPS is higher because the pitcher would rather walk him than give him a pitch to hit with someone on base.

  4. #63
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    I can't belive this needs to be argued any more, but...

    (stats are before tonight's 3-3, BB performance)

    Dunn with NOBODY on base:

    .262 .360 .533 .893

    Dunn with RUNNERS on base:

    .265 .371 .581 .952

    Dunn is a better hitter with runners on base this year. And because of his ability to slug, it really is moot if runners happen to be in scoring position.

  5. #64
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Muggerd View Post
    He strikes out 33% of the time with someone on base, thats bad

    He never gets a sac fly, thats bad.

    He gets out more than any other top RBI in the majors with guys on base, thats bad.
    What a joke. I think somehow, because baseball's first pro team was in Cincinnati, some of our fans think the game hasn't changed. Well, guess what? The ball has more consistency than a bean bag nowadays and you can hit line drives and home runs to increase the number of RBIs you have. (Such as, say, Adam Dunn, who, if you didn't know, is 7th in the league in RBIs.) He still manages to be 7th in the league in RBIs.

    Adam Dunn.

    Is.

    Seventh (7th) in the league in RBIs.

    In spite of the fact that he doesn't hit well with RISP, doesn't hit sac flies, and "strikes out too much". That pretty much destroys your entire argument.

  6. #65
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    Dunn's OPS is higher because the pitcher would rather walk him than give him a pitch to hit with someone on base.
    Dunn walks at the same rate with someone on base as he does with no one on base. What the pitcher would rather do has nothing to do with it. Dunn should be looking for a pitch to hit instead of just taking the walk. The best RBI guys in the league find a way to hit with people on base why is it so hard for Dunn?

  7. #66
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Muggerd View Post
    Dunn walks at the same rate with someone on base as he does with no one on base. What the pitcher would rather do has nothing to do with it. Dunn should be looking for a pitch to hit instead of just taking the walk. The best RBI guys in the league find a way to hit with people on base why is it so hard for Dunn?
    but but but....

    Dunn IS one of the best RBI guys in the league. (Someone should have pointed this out sooner.)

  8. #67
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fil3232 View Post
    I can't belive this needs to be argued any more, but...

    (stats are before tonight's 3-3, BB performance)

    Dunn with NOBODY on base:

    .262 .360 .533 .893

    Dunn with RUNNERS on base:

    .265 .371 .581 .952

    Dunn is a better hitter with runners on base this year. And because of his ability to slug, it really is moot if runners happen to be in scoring position.
    nice catch.

  9. #68
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Muggerd View Post
    Dunn walks at the same rate with someone on base as he does with no one on base. What the pitcher would rather do has nothing to do with it. Dunn should be looking for a pitch to hit instead of just taking the walk. The best RBI guys in the league find a way to hit with people on base why is it so hard for Dunn?
    Dunn is one of the best RBI guys in the league. That is why he is 7th in the league in RBIs.

    Dunn is looking for a pitch to hit and when he doesn't get one he walks.

    You don't get base hits by swinging at balls. That is how you make outs.

  10. #69
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Muggerd View Post
    Exaggerated hype that you guys seem to want to push. Show me another 40 home run guy that is bad as dunn in situations with someone on base? You dont think the solo homers are replaceable with someone who is much more likely to get a runner in from 2nd? If the game only counted home runs then Dunn would be key but sadly for the Reds they also count runs that score off singles doubles and triples.

    Its not just Lance Berkman either, Look at other players who are these top RBI guys. Dunn is the worst of them all. Yet we are ready to pay more money than other guys that are better than him?
    No, the burden of proof appears to be on you. YOU show ME any evidence that backs up your claim. First, I want to see how Dunn's "solo HRs are replaceable with someone who is much more likely to get a runner in from 2nd" and also how Dunn is the "worst of all" the top RBI men (which seems akin to being the worst Brazilian on the national soccer team, or the worst Quarterback in Hawaii at the Pro Bowl).

  11. #70
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue View Post
    What a joke. I think somehow, because baseball's first pro team was in Cincinnati, some of our fans think the game hasn't changed. Well, guess what? The ball has more consistency than a bean bag nowadays and you can hit line drives and home runs to increase the number of RBIs you have. (Such as, say, Adam Dunn, who, if you didn't know, is 7th in the league in RBIs.) He still manages to be 7th in the league in RBIs.

    Adam Dunn.

    Is.

    Seventh (7th) in the league in RBIs.

    In spite of the fact that he doesn't hit well with RISP, doesn't hit sac flies, and "strikes out too much". That pretty much destroys your entire argument.
    My arguement is that even with those bad numbers he is still 7th that acutally supports my case that the RBIs can be replaced. Maybe not all of them but not enough to hurt this teams chances of winning. Better Bullpen = less runs you need to score. Its quite obvious this teams problem is the bullpen. My whole thing is Id rather spend the Dunn money on the reds weaknesses not spend more money on the reds strengths. Scoring more and more runs while your bullpen is giving up more and more doesnt do much for your win loss column. The reds score plenty of runs to win and losing maybe 20 runs over the course of a season isnt goin to hurt them as much as you guys think.

  12. #71
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    Dunn is one of the best RBI guys in the league. That is why he is 7th in the league in RBIs.

    Dunn is looking for a pitch to hit and when he doesn't get one he walks.

    You don't get base hits by swinging at balls. That is how you make outs.
    Some how Aramis Ramirez finds balls to hit. Some how Ryan Howard finds balls to hit. Some how Berkman finds balls to hit. Some how Carlos Lee finds balls to hit. Dunn needs to learn how to hit the pitches hes thrown not wait for his pitch. Pitchers are not going to give Dunn his pitch, just like pitchers dont give the other guys pitches they can hit out of the park.

  13. #72
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue View Post
    but but but....

    Dunn IS one of the best RBI guys in the league. (Someone should have pointed this out sooner.)
    This year yes dunn is one of the best RBI guys in the league. How was he in 2006, 2005, 2004?

  14. #73
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fil3232 View Post
    No, the burden of proof appears to be on you. YOU show ME any evidence that backs up your claim. First, I want to see how Dunn's "solo HRs are replaceable with someone who is much more likely to get a runner in from 2nd" and also how Dunn is the "worst of all" the top RBI men (which seems akin to being the worst Brazilian on the national soccer team, or the worst Quarterback in Hawaii at the Pro Bowl).
    Its not my fault you cant look up the stats for yourself. Oh wow you copy and pasted OBP. Great in depth researching there. Take some time. I dont feel like posting pages of stats so you guys can just say "but he scores 100 runs"

  15. #74
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Muggerd View Post
    My arguement is that even with those bad numbers he is still 7th that acutally supports my case that the RBIs can be replaced. Maybe not all of them but not enough to hurt this teams chances of winning. Better Bullpen = less runs you need to score. Its quite obvious this teams problem is the bullpen. My whole thing is Id rather spend the Dunn money on the reds weaknesses not spend more money on the reds strengths. Scoring more and more runs while your bullpen is giving up more and more doesnt do much for your win loss column. The reds score plenty of runs to win and losing maybe 20 runs over the course of a season isnt goin to hurt them as much as you guys think.
    If the conversation is only about the bullpen needing to improve, along with the rest of the pitching, I'm completely on board. That can be argued without trying to convince others that Dunn isn't a run producer.

    Can the Reds re-allocate Dunn's money elsewhere and improve the club? Maybe. But what I suspect will happen will be that the Reds find replacing Dunn a whole heck of a lot harder than they thought and therefore, 10-13 million a year for a player of Dunn's ilk really is the right market value. What I think the Reds would be wise to do would involve unloading Jr.'s contract and finding pay flex from that. Also, additional play flex could be gained from moving Hatteberg, Conine, Stanton, and Weathers.

  16. #75
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: Adam Dunn is #225 with 225 career home runs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Muggerd View Post
    My arguement is that even with those bad numbers he is still 7th that acutally supports my case that the RBIs can be replaced. Maybe not all of them but not enough to hurt this teams chances of winning. Better Bullpen = less runs you need to score. Its quite obvious this teams problem is the bullpen. My whole thing is Id rather spend the Dunn money on the reds weaknesses not spend more money on the reds strengths. Scoring more and more runs while your bullpen is giving up more and more doesnt do much for your win loss column. The reds score plenty of runs to win and losing maybe 20 runs over the course of a season isnt goin to hurt them as much as you guys think.
    If you want to spend more money on the bullpen all you have to do is spend more money on the bullpen. The cheapskate Lindner years are over. You find a good deal on a pitcher you take it. Dunn doesn't have anything to do with the bullpen.

    If you want to be a cheapskate and cut payroll, then you cut the players that are not earning their salaries. You keep the good players. You don't get better by getting rid of your good players. It really is as simple as that.

    The Reds are not going to fix the bullpen by spending a bunch of money on free agent relievers. It will not work. What good free agents will be available this offseason and how much will they cost? Until that question is answered I won't buy the argument we should ditch Dunn to spend his salary on the bullpen. It is not feasible and is not going to be successful.


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