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Thread: The case for keeping Weathers

  1. #1
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    The case for keeping Weathers

    I think the Reds should trade almost any player for top end young pitching, but assuming no such offer, should they trade Weathers?

    He is 37, has had a terrific year, currently has saved 20 of 24 with a 3.10 ERA. His last two seasons were not quite as good, but were very solid with WHIPs of 1.29 in both 2005 and 2006. He has taken well to late innings work and undeniably is the Reds best reliever.

    Many would say, cash him in for more youthful players while he has value, and it's hard to disagree with that.

    On the other hand, take Todd Jones, who is 39 years old. In 2005 and 2006 he saved, respectively, 40 and 37 games and this year, while most of his numbers are down this year, he does have 27 saves so far. Some relievers can pitch well into their forties.

    A lot depends on your view of the Reds time horizon. Can they be competitive in 2008? In 2009? Beyond that, hard to project Weathers as a helper, but in 2008 and 09 can still see him being productive.

    But even if there is no expectation of winning soon, it's hard to imagine this team without Weathers or a suitable replacement. Is it worth keeping Weathers just to be a reasonable ballclub while rebuilding?

    Personally, I enjoy watching him pitch. Weathers is just unafraid of good hitters, comes right after them, and is great in pressure spots with men on base. After a little rest, he seems better than ever this last week.

    Wonder what folks think.
    Last edited by Kc61; 07-26-2007 at 11:08 AM.

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  3. #2
    15 game winner Danny Serafini's Avatar
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    Re: The case for keeping Weathers

    If a good enough offer comes along I'd move him, but I'm happy having him on the team. He's been their best reliever, and while I understand those who want to bring up a bunch of kids, and agree with that to a good degree, you do need some people who have been there before and know what to expect. He's a good addition to this staff, and barring an unexpectedly good trade offer I'd keep him.

  4. #3
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: The case for keeping Weathers

    37, coming off a good year, pitching well, would be a very good 7th or 8th inning guy for a contending team, I trade him if I get talent in return. The reds are going nowhere with Weathers so why not get something in return from him.

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    Re: The case for keeping Weathers

    On the surface he has quite a bit of value for the Reds next year, so there is no motivation to give him away. However, considering his age, usage and the volatility of stuff-challenged relievers, I would absolutely be open to trading him. If someone stepped up to the table with even a 'Linebrick' type offer, I would snap it up.

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    Re: The case for keeping Weathers

    On the surface he has quite a bit of value for the Reds next year, so there is no motivation to give him away.
    That's the way I feel about a good bit of the reds roster. I honestly don't think there is anybody on this roster that I wouldn't trade for the right package.

    OTOH there are some guys (Lohse/Hatteberg/Conine) that they would be foolish to not give away for anything they can get. As much as I like Hatteberg, he's not going to be on the next good reds team.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

  7. #6
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: The case for keeping Weathers

    This organization needs high-ceiling arms in the minors more than a 37 year old closer, no matter how reliable.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  8. #7
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: The case for keeping Weathers

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    This organization needs high-ceiling arms in the minors more than a 37 year old closer, no matter how reliable.
    Do you think Weathers could bring that, though?

    I don't.

    I don't think the Reds should be moving players simply to move them. I'm all for trading Weathers if the deal is right, but not for some chump roster filler or AAA washout. You're better off keeping Weathers if that is the return.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  9. #8
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: The case for keeping Weathers

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis View Post
    Do you think Weathers could bring that, though?

    I don't.

    I don't think the Reds should be moving players simply to move them. I'm all for trading Weathers if the deal is right, but not for some chump roster filler or AAA washout. You're better off keeping Weathers if that is the return.
    Linebrink netted the Padres 3 pitching prospects.

    I think Weathers could bring in something like a AA pitcher with a live arm and some warts. That's the kind of return I'd be seeking.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  10. #9
    Member paulrichjr's Avatar
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    Re: The case for keeping Weathers

    I think Weathers is worth more in trade bait then anyone the Reds have including Dunn. Teams would love him for the final 2 months and then have him next year for real cheap considering the reliever market. His value to us is LESS than it is to almost any team in contention and many of us want to keep him... Just think what the Yanks might give for him.
    Tim McCarver: Baseball Quotes
    I remember one time going out to the mound to talk with Bob Gibson. He told me to get back behind the batter, that the only thing I knew about pitching was that it was hard to hit.

  11. #10
    Hot Stove Season HotCorner's Avatar
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    Re: The case for keeping Weathers

    I believe the Reds value Weathers more because of his leadership in the clubhouse (and more importantly the bullpen) and his cheap contract. It's like having an extra pitching coach on the team. The only veteran relievers on this roster are Stormy, Stanton and Guadardo. It's rapidly becoming a very young bp and needs a good veteran presence.

  12. #11
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: The case for keeping Weathers

    Quote Originally Posted by paulrichjr View Post
    I think Weathers is worth more in trade bait then anyone the Reds have including Dunn. Teams would love him for the final 2 months and then have him next year for real cheap considering the reliever market. His value to us is LESS than it is to almost any team in contention and many of us want to keep him... Just think what the Yanks might give for him.
    I agree. I think the most valuable chips the Reds have are:

    Weathers
    Lohse
    Hatteberg
    Conine

    5 more days and we'll see how this plays out.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  13. #12
    OlafTheBlack Dan's Avatar
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    Re: The case for keeping Weathers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    On the other hand, take Todd Jones, who is 39 years old. In 2005 and 2006 he saved, respectively, 40 and 37 games and this year, while most of his numbers are down this year, he does have 27 saves so far. Some relievers can pitch well into their forties.
    Never base your expectations for one player upon the performance of another. just because Todd Jones may have done that, that doesn't mean Weathers will. It's an illogical argument.

    I'm of the belief that you sell high. Weathers is at his high point right now and ought to bring a solid return (Balentien?). Don't miss out on the opportunity to get value where you can.
    Sabermetrics can be boiled down to this simple truism: A batter's goal is to extend the inning. Extend enough innings and you're going to score runs. Extend more innings than your opponent and you're going to score more runs than him.

  14. #13
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    Re: The case for keeping Weathers

    If we can trade Weathers for something solid then I'm all for it. If we can get at least 1 solid prospect or two middle prospects then let's make a deal. However, if the return is 2 questionable A prospects who probably won't ever do much then let's keep him. There's no need to give David Weathers away when he is filling our greatest need (relief pitching).

  15. #14
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: The case for keeping Weathers

    Quote Originally Posted by Caseyfan21 View Post
    If we can trade Weathers for something solid then I'm all for it. If we can get at least 1 solid prospect or two middle prospects then let's make a deal. However, if the return is 2 questionable A prospects who probably won't ever do much then let's keep him. There's no need to give David Weathers away when he is filling our greatest need (relief pitching).
    He's filling the team's greatest current need, true, but to what end? What good is his performance doing the organization as a whole? Wouldn't the organization be better off by stockpiling high-ceiling arms in the minors?
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  16. #15
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: The case for keeping Weathers

    I think the biggest drawback to unloading Weathers is that the dreadful 8th inning pitching that we've seen too frequently would become dreadful 8th AND 9th inning pitching. The reports of successful outings by Bray and Majewski in Louisville are encouraging, but it seems premature for the Reds to count on either or both of those guys to pick up the slack if Weathers is shipped off. It's even less clear where the solution is among the rest of the bullpen crew.

    It's easier for me, and probably the average fan, to envision that losing Weathers will cause the Reds to lose games than it is to envision that happening in the wake of the loss of anyone else on the roster. Stormy has been a great safety net lately.


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