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Thread: The case for keeping Weathers

  1. #16
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: The case for keeping Weathers

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    Wouldn't the organization be better off by stockpiling high-ceiling arms in the minors?
    No one's saying they shouldn't. But not every young pitcher is a valuable commodity. In fact, most aren't. I would hope that the Reds proceed cautiously with trading Weathers and don't give him away for easily replaceable minor league fodder.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

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  3. #17
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: The case for keeping Weathers

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis View Post
    No one's saying they shouldn't. But not every young pitcher is a valuable commodity. In fact, most aren't. I would hope that the Reds proceed cautiously with trading Weathers and don't give him away for easily replaceable minor league fodder.
    The thing is, some of those cannon-fodder types can pan out to be serviceable major leaguers. If Krivsky's scouting department is as good as promised, they should be able to recognize talented but undervalued prospects.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  4. #18
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: The case for keeping Weathers

    Quote Originally Posted by Unassisted View Post
    ...

    It's easier for me, and probably the average fan, to envision that losing Weathers will cause the Reds to lose games than it is to envision that happening in the wake of the loss of anyone else on the roster. Stormy has been a great safety net lately.
    A losing record is cold comfort, even if there are warm spots.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  5. #19
    Greatness In The Making RedLegSuperStar's Avatar
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    Re: The case for keeping Weathers

    The Reds have reportedly pulled David Weathers off the market.
    Weathers keeps defying expectations and is on his way to another very solid year. Still, there's no telling how much longer the 37-year-old is going to last, and if it'd bring in a quality young starter, the Reds shouldn't be afraid to move him. He's owed $3.1 million next year in the final season of his two-year contract.
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    2009 Reds Record When I Attend: 1W - 2L

    2010 Reds Record When I Attend: 1W - 0L

    2011 Reds Record When I Attend: 0W - 1L

  6. #20
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: The case for keeping Weathers

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    The thing is, some of those cannon-fodder types can pan out to be serviceable major leaguers.
    ...and can typically be had for far less than the cost of a David Weathers.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  7. #21
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
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    Re: The case for keeping Weathers

    The Reds have reportedly pulled David Weathers off the market.
    The front office must really think they are very close to contending. Otherwise that just doesn't make sense.

  8. #22
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: The case for keeping Weathers

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    This organization needs high-ceiling arms in the minors more than a 37 year old closer, no matter how reliable.
    Exactly. And we've been told that there have been scouts, as of late, at recent games observing Weathers. If the deal is there, then you gotta do it.

    Set backs to Guardado have probably kept it from happening.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  9. #23
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    Re: The case for keeping Weathers

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    The front office must really think they are very close to contending. Otherwise that just doesn't make sense.
    The problem is, Weathers may not help that but, be a sore spot on that idea instead. The Reds have little use for him going into the future.

  10. #24
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    Re: The case for keeping Weathers

    If the Reds can't move Weathers, Conine and Hatteberg for good High A and AA prospects, for a Reds farm system that is almost a waste land at Sarasota and Chat., lets just say Wayne needs to buy a bus ticket out of town. These are the type of players you have to move at the deadline.

  11. #25
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: The case for keeping Weathers

    Quote Originally Posted by RedLegSuperStar View Post
    RotoWorld.com / SI.com
    I thought it might be a ploy to drive up his value but if the Reds say "the van's a-rockin'"...you know the rest.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  12. #26
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: The case for keeping Weathers

    It will be too hard to find a decent closer on the open market this winter that would be willing to sign for $5 million or under. Keeping Weathers gives the Reds one less thing to worry about this offseason. Then, with the money freed up from the deadweight that was Eric Milton, they can go after 1 or 2 starting pitchers (they would obviously have to up the payroll to to go after 2, but I think Castalini is willing to do it) and maybe a right-handed hitter who could play 1B and maybe even 3B. Someone like Morgan Ensberg comes to mind. I know he has been awful this year, and was terrible the second half of last year as well, but we might be able to get someone like him for a decent price and he was a 30+ HR guy just a couple years ago. Not saying it has to be Ensberg but someone like that. I would also like to see the Reds go after a RH OF this offseason.

    So, by keeping Weathers -- even though it's a one-year fix -- would allow the Reds to concentrate on other areas they need to improve. If they deal him, they will have to sign a closer as a free agent or trade for one this winter. And I think teams who are desperate for a closer always end up overpaying for them. Furthermore, I would submit there won't be a surplus of even average closers available on the market.

  13. #27
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    Re: The case for keeping Weathers

    Closers are made and not born.

    Stuff-challanged relievers flame out quickly.

    David Weathers is not an elite closer. If someone is willing to play 'closers' price for David Weathers, the Reds should listen. If we trade Weathers for the right return then we may solve our closer situation for the next 3-4 years (see Taylor, Billy).

  14. #28
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: The case for keeping Weathers

    Quote Originally Posted by Redmachine2003 View Post
    If the Reds can't move Weathers, Conine and Hatteberg for good High A and AA prospects, for a Reds farm system that is almost a waste land at Sarasota and Chat., lets just say Wayne needs to buy a bus ticket out of town. These are the type of players you have to move at the deadline.
    Absolutely. This is the area that has caused me to hold off on Krivsky. I want to see what he can do.

    As for Conine - I doubt any one is gonna give up aything for him since he has hinted he may retire at season's end.

    But if you are going to take the direction that we need to rebuild, then you have two alternatives at your disposal.....

    the draft

    and acquiring them from other teams. And from teams that are in "need" come the trading deadline.

    It's about making that "match" and getting it done.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  15. #29
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: The case for keeping Weathers

    This just seems like Negotiation 101 here. There are several relievers on the market, some more valued than Weathers, and Krivsky may be tired of fielding offers based on the premise that Weathers can be had for a sack of baseballs. So he may be "taking him off the table" as a tactic to say "look, we don't have to trade him, bring a real offer or don't bother."

    I say this with a degree of confidence because I haven't seen the rumored offers out there for Weathers, and there's usually some smoke around the players coveted by the buying GMs.
    Not all who wander are lost

  16. #30
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: The case for keeping Weathers

    I understand the idea of keeping Weathers. Without him the bullpen completely is lost.

    Some stuff to think about though:

    1. He's never been elite and still really isn't.
    2. He is signed reasonably for 2008, but the Reds don't have what it takes for 2008. The window of opportunity is 2009 and beyond when Weathers will be 39 years old and will be a free agent and IMO too old to sign long term. So, he isn't a building block.
    3. Aging pitchers can lose it quickly.
    4. He's been ridden hard with alot of 2 inning saves. Who knows what effect that may have on him.

    I see more downside to keeping him than trading him. The major issue being that he won't be around when the team next has a chance and not having him next year isn't going to make a ton of difference anyway. I say get multiple players back and see if they can be assets in the future. In the mean-time, that $3.1 Million that won't be going to Weathers should be able to net a competent reliever (though maybe not closer material). Its highly likely that next year that is all Weathers will be anyway. I guess I'd rather have his replacement plus the stuff he brings in trade than simply Weathers alone. I really don't think 2008 is a time to compete. It might be if a number of great moves are made. I do know those moves will not be made by keeping status quo.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS


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