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View Poll Results: Are you an OPS geek?

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  • Yes- I am proudly a OPS geek

    25 50.00%
  • NO- I will only quote OPS on my deathbed

    10 20.00%
  • Sometimes- I will sometimes make a point.

    15 30.00%
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Thread: Are you a OPS geek?

  1. #1
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    Are you a OPS geek?

    I have to admit I am not. I have never in my life quoted a player's OPS and I probably never will. I am smart enough to know it means on base plus slugging, I am just old and stubborn enough to refuse to use this stat. I was interested if there were any other souls out there like me.

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  3. #2
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    Re: Are you a OPS geek?

    Quote Originally Posted by AmarilloRed View Post
    I have to admit I am not. I have never in my life quoted a player's OPS and I probably never will. I am smart enough to know it means on base plus slugging, I am just old and stubborn enough to refuse to use this stat. I was interested if there were any other souls out there like me.
    I use it. I think it is the best stat out there to measure offensive value - much more so than avg and rbi. It is not perfect, however. It tends to slightly overstate the value of a player like Dunn who strikes out alot.

  4. #3
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: Are you a OPS geek?

    Yes I am. OPS has been proven beyond all shadow of doubt to be an excellent indicator of offensive production. Teams with the highest OPS score the most runs. It is a much better stat for evaluating hitting ability than batting average (where all hits count the same and walks don't count). A home run is clearly better than a single, but they both count the same for batting average. If you use inferior stats you will get inferior results.

    As time has gone by, baseball people have spent a lot of time processing the huge amount of data accrued over the years. It is easy to spot trends regarding what works and what doesn't. High OPS has proven over and over to be the best strategy for building a team. If you don't put high OPS guys on the field then you will not win. It is pretty simple. Those that don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it.

  5. #4
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    Re: Are you a OPS geek?

    I look at OPS but I hold it in any higher of regard than any other stat. You still need to look at all of a players stats. Different stats for different players matter more to me.

  6. #5
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    Re: Are you a OPS geek?

    Quote Originally Posted by AmarilloRed View Post
    I have to admit I am not. I have never in my life quoted a player's OPS and I probably never will. I am smart enough to know it means on base plus slugging, I am just old and stubborn enough to refuse to use this stat. I was interested if there were any other souls out there like me.
    Out of curiousity, why would you "refuse" to use a specific tool that can be used to measure performance? Do you prefer other metrics, or is this just bias against "geeks?"

  7. #6
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    Re: Are you a OPS geek?

    Quote Originally Posted by AmarilloRed View Post
    I have to admit I am not. I have never in my life quoted a player's OPS and I probably never will. I am smart enough to know it means on base plus slugging, I am just old and stubborn enough to refuse to use this stat. I was interested if there were any other souls out there like me.
    Im with you. Played 19 years of baseball, never once referred to it, never even cared. I think some people rely on stats too much, and dont simply enjoy the game as it is-I like to watch the game, and at the end tell if a player is decent by how he plays, not his stats.

  8. #7
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Are you a OPS geek?

    Just to add to the argument, I read an interview with Bill James a couple of years ago, and he said that he does not use OPS.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  9. #8
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    Re: Are you a OPS geek?

    I'm definitly a Stat guy. It's guys like Ryan Freel who can deceive the eyes into thinking they are actually good because of their constant hussle and dirty uniforms, but his horrible On Base Percentage show he doesn't really contribute to the Reds. You're eyes also see a big lumbering guy like Dunn and think he is always dogging it because of his appearance.
    Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball - Jacques Barzun

  10. #9
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    Re: Are you a OPS geek?

    Quote Originally Posted by bounty37h View Post
    Im with you. Played 19 years of baseball, never once referred to it, never even cared. I think some people rely on stats too much, and dont simply enjoy the game as it is-I like to watch the game, and at the end tell if a player is decent by how he plays, not his stats.
    Without using statistics at the very least in rudimentary form, there is no possible way, even by "watching the game," that you can tell a 40 double guy from a 30 double guy, a .300 hitter from a .275 hitter, or someone who gets on base 220 times from someone who gets on base 200 times.

    Though I played 13 years of baseball, I am now firmly ensconced in the "geek with a computer club." Valuation and estimating future production must have a basis in metrics, otherwise such endeavors are nothing more than guesses.

  11. #10
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    Re: Are you a OPS geek?

    Quote Originally Posted by mound_patrol View Post
    I'm definitly a Stat guy. It's guys like Ryan Freel who can deceive the eyes into thinking they are actually good because of their constant hussle and dirty uniforms, but his horrible On Base Percentage show he doesn't really contribute to the Reds. You're eyes also see a big lumbering guy like Dunn and think he is always dogging it because of his appearance.
    You can also tell by watching that Freel takes circuitous routes to the baseball, a trait that is not easily quantifiable.

    Many metrics help fans understand a player's approximate contribution in a certain facet of the game at a glance; many can be just as deceiving as trusting one's eyes too much.

    OPS is a nice quick-and-dirty metric (as it combines OBP and SLG, the two "common" rate statistics which most closely correlate to run production), but it is imperfect unless combined with perspective, such as level of competition, ballpark effects, etc. I won't blindly "refuse" to use it; however, I will quote OPS with its numerous caveats understood.

  12. #11
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    Re: Are you a OPS geek?

    [QUOTE= A home run is clearly better than a single, but they both count the same for batting average. If you use inferior stats you will get inferior results.QUOTE]

    But, you never get more HR's than singles in a season. Does this mean Ichiro is not as good as Dunn?

  13. #12
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    Re: Are you a OPS geek?

    I use it rarely. Usually only when discussing a player with someone that thinks its the be all end all. I feel that OBP is a very important stat. I also feel that SLG is an important stat. I've never really understood why adding the two number together makes it the greatest metric for determining offensive prowess. To me ,it seems that adding up to good independent stats is not the proper way to create a better stat.

  14. #13
    Boom Goes the Dynamite Screwball's Avatar
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    Re: Are you a OPS geek?

    Quote Originally Posted by EddieMilner View Post
    I feel that OBP is a very important stat. I also feel that SLG is an important stat. I've never really understood why adding the two number together makes it the greatest metric for determining offensive prowess. To me ,it seems that adding up to good independent stats is not the proper way to create a better stat.
    The reason the 2 were combined is because OPS actually has a greater correlation (and thus, is a better determination of a player's offensive ability) to runs scored than just OBP or SLG seperately.

    For example, a Dodger fan here computed the correlation of BA, OBP, SLG, and OPS to runs scored for the Dodgers every year since 1962. His results came out to:

    BA - .7192 (r^2, a.k.a. correlation)
    OBP - .8226
    SLG - .8169
    OPS - .8868

    As you can see, OPS is the best indicator of runs scored, or as the author of the article put it:
    In other words, variation in the Dodger's team batting average explains about 72% of the variation in runs scored by the Dodgers, OBP or SLG about 82%, and OPS about 89%.
    OBP and SLG are very much more accurate than BA when trying to assess one player offensively. However, to get the most accurate picture using just one stat, OPS is the way to go.
    Last edited by Screwball; 07-26-2007 at 06:17 PM. Reason: needed better wording

  15. #14
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    Re: Are you a OPS geek?

    Yes, and I also am AN Stickler for bad grammar...

    PEACE

    -BLEEDS

  16. #15
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    Re: Are you a OPS geek?

    This is a "researched" post???

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"



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