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Thread: oh no! Harang?

  1. #16
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: oh no! Harang?

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    10 inning outing and other long starts catching up with him? When is K going to put out the word on pitch limits for these guys? McK is as bad as Narron at overworking Arroyo and Harang.
    Gotta chill out about the 10 innings. I've seen 7 inning performances more laboring than Harang's gem.

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  3. #17
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    Re: oh no! Harang?

    Harang goes ten in his last start, then pulls up with a bad back in the first inning of tonight's game. Just a coincidence?

  4. #18
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: oh no! Harang?

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    Harang goes ten in his last start, then pulls up with a bad back in the first inning of tonight's game. Just a coincidence?
    Again...look past the ten innings. Where was the outcry on his 122 pitch game in June. There really wasn't. Why??? Because he didn't pitch 10 innings, but that game was actually more laborsome. Also, you have to look at the actual pitches thrown in each inning. A 90 pitch game with 1 inning of 45 pitches is going to be just as stressful as say, a 105 pitch game. Harang cruised the other night. If you want to argue based on pitch count, fine. But don't complain b/c he went 10 innings...to go ten innings with 10 K and have his pitch count be 121 was just the result of an amazing game.

    Did it affect his back tonight??? We'll see...it just may have. But...don't act all bent out of shape just based on him going 10 innings.

    And HokieRed...if you questioned the pitchcount/innings pitched on here before Harang left tonight, your position on this has a lot more value. (I don't know if you did or not) I'd prefer to think you aren't MMQB'ing.

  5. #19
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    Re: oh no! Harang?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Again...look past the ten innings. Where was the outcry on his 122 pitch game in June. There really wasn't. Why??? Because he didn't pitch 10 innings, but that game was actually more laborsome. Also, you have to look at the actual pitches thrown in each inning. A 90 pitch game with 1 inning of 45 pitches is going to be just as stressful as say, a 105 pitch game. Harang cruised the other night. If you want to argue based on pitch count, fine. But don't complain b/c he went 10 innings...to go ten innings with 10 K and have his pitch count be 121 was just the result of an amazing game.

    Did it affect his back tonight??? We'll see...it just may have. But...don't act all bent out of shape just based on him going 10 innings.

    And HokieRed...if you questioned the pitchcount/innings pitched on here before Harang left tonight, your position on this has a lot more value. (I don't know if you did or not) I'd prefer to think you aren't MMQB'ing.
    I agree with you for the most part. But you also have to take into the account that the difference between a 7 inning game and a 10 inning game is that's 3 more times his arm cools and then he has to go back out there and throw more warmup pitches.
    Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball - Jacques Barzun

  6. #20
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    Re: oh no! Harang?

    Quote Originally Posted by mound_patrol View Post
    I agree with you for the most part. But you also have to take into the account that the difference between a 7 inning game and a 10 inning game is that's 3 more times his arm cools and then he has to go back out there and throw more warmup pitches.
    Of course, thats a good counterpoint. You obviously understand the dynamics of pitching and arm fatigue. Its just all of these complaints based on simply 10-innings need a little more substance to them. There are unlimited variables that affect arm fatigue...#1 is total pitches. From there you have type of pitches,how many pitches in one inning,amount of rest between innings,exertion by your body/arm on each pitch,etc...(those are in no order) The number of innings pitched on one night is just one piece of the arm fatigue puzzle.

    Arroyo threw 123 pitches Friday night. Harang 121 the 10 inning night. Where's the outrage about Arroyo Friday night.

    Overworked in general??? Arguments can be made, no doubt. But an argument solely on 10 innings in one game is a weak argument.

  7. #21
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    Re: oh no! Harang?

    He will miss his next scheduled start; the injury could be worse than we think.

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    Re: oh no! Harang?

    Quote Originally Posted by AmarilloRed View Post
    He will miss his next scheduled start; the injury could be worse than we think.

    This concerns me too. One wonders if maybe he tweaked something in his arm trying to compensate for the back; and that is the cause of taking the entire week off.

    My question is if they knew about this during warm ups why did they even send him out to start?

    The effect was that the Reds had two "starting" pitchers having to struggle through their 1st inning and both getting tagged. Gosling pitched fair after he gave up the 3 run dinger. If he would have come out and gotten tagged (without them already being -2) as a starter then the rest of his performance might have allowed them to get back into the game. As it was they are down 5 and the game is basically over before the middle of the 2nd inning.

    Also maybe if they had shut Harang down in the bullpen, he could have received treatment and been ready to come back today. It is not like they haven't (justifiably) passsed over or pushed back Belisle previously.

  9. #23
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    Re: oh no! Harang?

    He could have back trouble because hes not the fittest of guys. Id actually say that combined with a the course of a season can break you down a little. Lower back stiffness can just be annoying and then just go away over a night of sleep.

  10. #24
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    Re: oh no! Harang?

    Quote Originally Posted by jnwohio View Post
    This concerns me too. One wonders if maybe he tweaked something in his arm trying to compensate for the back; and that is the cause of taking the entire week off.

    My question is if they knew about this during warm ups why did they even send him out to start?

    The effect was that the Reds had two "starting" pitchers having to struggle through their 1st inning and both getting tagged. Gosling pitched fair after he gave up the 3 run dinger. If he would have come out and gotten tagged (without them already being -2) as a starter then the rest of his performance might have allowed them to get back into the game. As it was they are down 5 and the game is basically over before the middle of the 2nd inning.

    Also maybe if they had shut Harang down in the bullpen, he could have received treatment and been ready to come back today. It is not like they haven't (justifiably) passsed over or pushed back Belisle previously.
    Or the reds are 12 games or what ever out of 1st and just want to be cautious because running a guy out there a little hurt isnt going to do anything productive.

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    Re: oh no! Harang?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muggerd View Post
    He could have back trouble because hes not the fittest of guys. Id actually say that combined with a the course of a season can break you down a little. Lower back stiffness can just be annoying and then just go away over a night of sleep.
    Just because he's a big guy doesn't mean he's out of shape. Just so you know Harang is one of the hardest working guys. Don't let his build fool you.
    Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball - Jacques Barzun

  12. #26
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    Re: oh no! Harang?

    Quote Originally Posted by mound_patrol View Post
    Just because he's a big guy doesn't mean he's out of shape. Just so you know Harang is one of the hardest working guys. Don't let his build fool you.
    Im not saying hes not hard working or that hes "out of shape". The guy has never had any problems i dont deny it but the extra weight can wear on you. So i can see how he has a tired or sore back. It happens to everyone. Not blaming his size at all im just saying it could be a factor. I did not mean that as negative in any way, but its simply a point to think about as being a contributing factor.

  13. #27
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    Re: oh no! Harang?

    I think it was absolutely stupid to have our best pitcher throw for 10 innings in a meaningless game. Whether his back problem is related to that or not the fact of the matter is the season is over for the Reds. Why overwork any of our pitchers to have a chance to win a meaningless game? Not good managing if you ask me.

  14. #28
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    Re: oh no! Harang?

    The number of innings will not hurt you; the amount of pitches you throw will have an effect on a pitcher.

  15. #29
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    Re: oh no! Harang?

    I think Harang will be fine
    its good that...
    1.he took himself right out of the game which is good.None of that
    macho I can handle the pain coach let me stay in.
    2.Reds are just being cautious with the missed start,cause we might
    just commit hara-kiri if anything happened to him.
    The Hunt for a Reds October.


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