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Thread: Wayne Krivsky Report Card

  1. #1
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Wayne Krivsky Report Card

    In light of all the criticism of the Medlock-for-Cantu trade, I decided to show some stats. I've been keeping track of the players Wayne Krivsky has acquired and let go, and here are the stats of those players:

    stats of players since leaving the Reds during Krivsky's tenure:
    2889 at-bats
    71 homeruns
    49 stolen bases
    .253 batting average
    .320 on-base percentage
    .390 slugging percentage
    542 innings pitched
    1 save
    205 walks
    321 strikeouts
    4.88 ERA
    1.43 WHIP

    stats of players obtained while they played for the Reds during Krivsky's tenure:
    3645 at-bats
    136 homeruns
    69 stolen bases
    .265 batting average
    .327 on-base percentage
    .436 slugging percentage
    969.3 innings pitched
    14 saves
    335 walks
    694 strikeouts
    4.45 ERA
    1.43 WHIP

    My conclusion is that in the end, Wayne Krivsky's getting the better end of the deals. If he contains to obtain more quality than he discards, the Reds' future is pretty bright.

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    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Wayne Krivsky Report Card

    My kids only get a report card every 8 weeks! Why do we have to do one on Wayne every two?
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Wayne Krivsky Report Card

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    My kids only get a report card every 8 weeks! Why do we have to do one on Wayne every two?
    I often wonder why people go overboard in supporting Krivsky. Like everyone else, he's going to have people who think he's a genius or a nice guy or whatever, but I would think performance would dictate whether or not you would give him your support. Even the hope of a good record. That performance or hope of better performance is either not there or invisible, so I remain confused when we acquire people who have never done anything anywhere else and we always point to Brandon Phillips. Lightning in a bottle folks. It may never happen again.

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    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Wayne Krivsky Report Card

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    I often wonder why people go overboard in supporting Krivsky. Like everyone else, he's going to have people who think he's a genius or a nice guy or whatever, but I would think performance would dictate whether or not you would give him your support. Even the hope of a good record. That performance or hope of better performance is either not there or invisible, so I remain confused when we acquire people who have never done anything anywhere else and we always point to Brandon Phillips. Lightning in a bottle folks. It may never happen again.
    Just currious...is one post that paints Kriv in a good light an example of this "going overboard to support Krivsky" ?

    You continue to paint a picture that there is a legion of people on RZ who support his every move and offer zero critisim. Red herring of olympic proportions. There is a middle ground between angst ridden replies bashing every move the man makes, and glowing, rosey-tinted glasses that support his every move. There is a middle ground out there.

    Here's one post. One. One post that actually shows in concrete terms that there has been some improvements made despite the mistakes and misteps and the lack of results on the bottom line.
    Last edited by Ltlabner; 07-30-2007 at 10:12 AM.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

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    Re: Wayne Krivsky Report Card

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    I often wonder why people go overboard in supporting Krivsky. Like everyone else, he's going to have people who think he's a genius or a nice guy or whatever, but I would think performance would dictate whether or not you would give him your support. Even the hope of a good record. That performance or hope of better performance is either not there or invisible, so I remain confused when we acquire people who have never done anything anywhere else and we always point to Brandon Phillips. Lightning in a bottle folks. It may never happen again.
    So you're basically making three points:

    1. The Reds haven't improved nor do they look like they're improving.

    2. The only person Krivsky acquired that has actually done anything is Brandon Phillips.

    3. It was blind luck that Krivsky acquired Phillips and / or blind luck that Phillips actually turned out to be good.

    To ritort:

    1. Under Dan-O, the Reds were 149 - 178 for a cool .456 winning percentage. Under Wayne, the Reds are 125 - 143 for a .466 winning percentage.

    Although its small improvement, its improvement. The starting pitching is better, the middle defense is better. The bullpen is about the same and the offense is about the same. The farm system seems to be better (and some of that is due to Dan-O's drafts but some of it also due to Wayne).

    2. I think Josh Hamilton and Bronson Arroyo have been pretty good pickups.

    3. Maybe. But I think he probably took a chance on a well-informed decision.

    Quite honestly, what it all boils down to is that the Reds organization was in pretty poor shape. It takes a long time to turn things around. I know we want every move to be "THE BIG ONE" that puts the ship on course but it doesn't work that way. People talk about the Tigers success but they sucked REALLY BADLY for a long time.

    Yeah, we all want the Reds to turn on a dime like a sportscar but baseball teams handle more like marching bands. And we all know that marching bands come after the horses.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

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    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Wayne Krivsky Report Card

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    Just currious...is one post that paints Kriv in a good light an example of this "going overboard to support Krivsky" ?

    You continue to paint a picture that there is a legion of people on RZ who support his every move and offer zero critisim. Red herring of olympic proportions. There is a middle ground between angst ridden replies bashing every move the man makes, and glowing, rosey-tinted glasses that support his every move. There is a middle ground out there.

    Here's one post. One. One post that actually shows in concrete terms that there has been some improvements made despite the mistakes and misteps and the lack of results on the bottom line.
    I really wasn't pointing at the thread starting post as an example. I'm just confused as to where the love for Krivsky comes from. Really. You can point out, as another poster has, that the team really has improved (by a whopping.010 percentage points) its winning percentage. You can (rightly as he pointed out) mention the great acquisitions of Arroyo and Hamilton, but all of that hasn't made one bit of difference in how this club performs. In fact, the offense has even gone away while the pitching, though improved, continues to flounder. Small steps?

    But it's no big deal either way. Yes, there should be some middle ground, but it's tough to find. I was just curious. It's kind of like folks have really given up on this team ever being a contender again and can be satisfied with "small steps" because they know that a team with cash problems like the Reds will never, ever be world beaters again. If that's the case, so be it, but I'd hope we would have higher expectations.

    Like another poster in another thread said last night, it's always wash...rinse...repeat over and over.

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    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Wayne Krivsky Report Card

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    But it's no big deal either way. Yes, there should be some middle ground, but it's tough to find. I was just curious. It's kind of like folks have really given up on this team ever being a contender again and can be satisfied with "small steps" because they know that a team with cash problems like the Reds will never, ever be world beaters again. If that's the case, so be it, but I'd hope we would have higher expectations.
    Ah yes.

    The old "we are just happy with anything" argument.

    Couldn't be that we don't expect an entire orginization to be turned from horse stall discharge to dominating juggernat in 18 months could it?

    Krivsky is neither a wunderkid nor an dunce. He's made improvements (whether you wish to recoginize them or not) and he's made blunders. See, that middle ground wasn't so hard to find afterall.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

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    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Wayne Krivsky Report Card

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    Ah yes.

    The old "we are just happy with anything" argument.

    Couldn't be that we don't expect an entire orginization to be turned from horse stall discharge to dominating juggernat in 18 months could it?

    Krivsky is neither a wunderkid nor an dunce. He's made improvements (whether you wish to recoginize them or not) and he's made blunders. See, that middle ground wasn't so hard to find afterall.
    Ltabner, I see your point, but my rose-colored glasses were broken in about 2002. We can do better. I just want to see progress along the way. The progress he's made has improved this club from a 73-89 (.451) record when he came to this club to 45-61 (.425). Even counting last year's abberation (80-82), the overall record is 125-143 (.466). That's not much improvement.

    I wish, like you and all Reds fans, that he finds the formula and does well. but I don't see it. Today and tomorrow may go a long way toward either reaching that goal.

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    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Wayne Krivsky Report Card

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    Ltabner, I see your point, but my rose-colored glasses were broken in about 2002.

    Today and tomorrow may go a long way toward either reaching that goal.
    Hahahaha. That first sentence got an out loud laugh.

    I agree 100% with your last sentence.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  11. #10
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    Re: Wayne Krivsky Report Card

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    I really wasn't pointing at the thread starting post as an example. I'm just confused as to where the love for Krivsky comes from. Really. You can point out, as another poster has, that the team really has improved (by a whopping.010 percentage points) its winning percentage. You can (rightly as he pointed out) mention the great acquisitions of Arroyo and Hamilton, but all of that hasn't made one bit of difference in how this club performs. In fact, the offense has even gone away while the pitching, though improved, continues to flounder. Small steps?
    I don't think anyone's stalking Wayne with a "blue box" in their pocket. I just think that people who are, shall we say, less unsupportive of him tend to realize that it takes more than a puff of smoke and a scantily-clad Barbara Eden to turn things around.

    Hey, its fine with me if you don't like Krivsky but the numbers just don't support what you're saying here:

    Code:
    
         Dan O'Brien Wayne Krivsky	
         2004  2005  2006  2007  2007 (projected)
    RS   750   820   749   489   747
    RA   907   889   801   547   836
    dif. -157  -69   -52   -58   -89
    
    Dan O's Run differential average: -113			
    Wayne K's Run differential average: -55	(actual) -70 (projected)
    To date, Wayne's team has allowed 58 fewer runs. Worldbeating? No. But we're not looking at allowing 900 runs. Its an improvement. The offense is scoring fewer runs, yes but on par with the 2004 season. The pitching, on the other hand is allowing much fewer runs...which, really is the problem.

    But it's no big deal either way. Yes, there should be some middle ground, but it's tough to find. I was just curious. It's kind of like folks have really given up on this team ever being a contender again and can be satisfied with "small steps" because they know that a team with cash problems like the Reds will never, ever be world beaters again.
    OK, so tell us, how long should it take?

    How long did it take, for example, Detroit?

    If that's the case, so be it, but I'd hope we would have higher expectations.
    My expectations are high but they're also real. I think we're seeing just how long it takes and how bad off we were.

    Like another poster in another thread said last night, it's always wash...rinse...repeat over and over.
    With these conversations, agreed.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  12. #11
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Wayne Krivsky Report Card

    all of the above just points out that no matter WK does or doesn't do at the deadline this team is still a long way from being a real contender. And that is the issue that few seem willing to admit.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    Re: Wayne Krivsky Report Card

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    all of the above just points out that no matter WK does or doesn't do at the deadline this team is still a long way from being a real contender. And that is the issue that few seem willing to admit.
    That's precisely the point I was making.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

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    Re: Wayne Krivsky Report Card

    ...
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    Re: Wayne Krivsky Report Card

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    I often wonder why people go overboard in supporting Krivsky. Like everyone else, he's going to have people who think he's a genius or a nice guy or whatever, but I would think performance would dictate whether or not you would give him your support. Even the hope of a good record. That performance or hope of better performance is either not there or invisible, so I remain confused when we acquire people who have never done anything anywhere else and we always point to Brandon Phillips. Lightning in a bottle folks. It may never happen again.
    How long should a GM have to rebuild a club? Should he do it overnight? Do you give him a year? Do you give him multiple years? It wasn't like he took over a club who was one player away from being competitive. It wasn't like he took up a club with a lot of cash to spend. He took over a club saddled with a lot of bad contracts. So I ask you, what GM is going to be successful when you take into consideration that he has been on the job for 1.5 years, its a small market club, he has several bad contracts to deal with, and he has to change around an organizational culture?

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    You're being very UnDude. sonny's Avatar
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    Re: Wayne Krivsky Report Card

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    I often wonder why people go overboard in supporting Krivsky. Like everyone else, he's going to have people who think he's a genius or a nice guy or whatever, but I would think performance would dictate whether or not you would give him your support. Even the hope of a good record. That performance or hope of better performance is either not there or invisible, so I remain confused when we acquire people who have never done anything anywhere else and we always point to Brandon Phillips. Lightning in a bottle folks. It may never happen again.
    I'm equally dumbfounded when people go overboard to bash him.
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