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Thread: Rangers to check out the young players...

  1. #1
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Rangers to check out the young players...

    http://texas.rangers.mlb.com/news/ar...=.jsp&c_id=tex


    Maybe sometime, the Reds will face the fact that they have no shot, and do the same thing...

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    Member Stormy's Avatar
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    Re: Rangers to check out the young players...

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw View Post
    http://texas.rangers.mlb.com/news/ar...=.jsp&c_id=tex


    Maybe sometime, the Reds will face the fact that they have no shot, and do the same thing...

    They traded their impending 2008 F.A. slugger and their closer to net a whole bunch of those youngsters... we moved Kyle Lohse, and have a 40+ year old 1B platoon blocking our only advanced young hitting prospect. Who needs a youth movement when you can watch a Santos start?

  4. #3
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Rangers to check out the young players...

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    They traded their impending 2008 F.A. slugger and their closer to net a whole bunch of those youngsters... we moved Kyle Lohse.
    Maybe I should have changed the wording to something along the lines that the Reds should have figured it out earlier...


    Hatteberg, Stormy, Conine, are 3 names that come to mind...at least 2 of them shouldn't be here right now....hopefully in August, that will happen.

    I sound like a broken record (for the young crew out there who don't know what records are, I sound like a CD with a scuff mark)
    Last edited by Matt700wlw; 08-02-2007 at 07:45 PM.

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    Member Stormy's Avatar
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    Re: Rangers to check out the young players...

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw View Post
    Maybe I should have changed the wording to something along the lines that the Reds should have figured it out earlier...
    I was agreeing with you, and I'm a broken record on the subject too.

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    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Rangers to check out the young players...

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw View Post

    Maybe sometime, the Reds will face the fact that they have no shot, and do the same thing...
    Nah, we can still be "competitive"
    Go Gators!

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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Rangers to check out the young players...

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    They traded their impending 2008 F.A. slugger and their closer to net a whole bunch of those youngsters... we moved Kyle Lohse, and have a 40+ year old 1B platoon blocking our only advanced young hitting prospect. Who needs a youth movement when you can watch a Santos start?
    Hatteberg and Conine are blocking Votto? Oh please! Votto is continuing to develop and is progressing well, but he's hardly being blocked.

  8. #7
    Member Stormy's Avatar
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    Re: Rangers to check out the young players...

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    Hatteberg and Conine are blocking Votto? Oh please! Votto is continuing to develop and is progressing well, but he's hardly being blocked.
    I agree with you that Votto has been where he belongs this season. However, *now* is the time of year when a last place franchise's best 23 year old bat who is progressing nicely, might normally start to get some August/September ABs in preparation for a MLB role in 2008. Do you not agree? However, unless Conine is moved during the waivers period, where is Votto going to get any ABs this year? With Hatteberg around another year, what type of LHH platoon would we be looking at? Where does Cantu and the .290sOBP he possesses fit into this plan?

    You're right, Votto certainly hasn't been blocked at this point, but I think at the very least we're now delaying his first tastes of the majors (and Wayne is hemming and hawing about when/if he might be ready, and has him playing LF)... who knows?

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    Re: Rangers to check out the young players...

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    I agree with you that Votto has been where he belongs this season. However, *now* is the time of year when a last place franchise's best 23 year old bat who is progressing nicely, might normally start to get some August/September ABs in preparation for a MLB role in 2008. Do you not agree? However, unless Conine is moved during the waivers period, where is Votto going to get any ABs this year? With Hatteberg around another year, what type of LHH platoon would we be looking at? Where does Cantu and the .290sOBP he possesses fit into this plan?

    You're right, Votto certainly hasn't been blocked at this point, but I think at the very least we're now delaying his first tastes of the majors (and Wayne is hemming and hawing about when/if he might be ready, and has him playing LF)... who knows?
    Not when the value of the mystery of Votto is worth more than the value of Votto's experience this the second half of a rotten year.

  10. #9
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Rangers to check out the young players...

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    They traded their impending 2008 F.A. slugger and their closer to net a whole bunch of those youngsters... we moved Kyle Lohse, and have a 40+ year old 1B platoon blocking our only advanced young hitting prospect. Who needs a youth movement when you can watch a Santos start?
    Just nitpicking here, but Jay Bruce is the Reds best prospect, hitter or pitcher, probably the best prospect in baseball regardless of position and is in AAA. I don't suggest calling him up or anything, but what he is doing in AAA compared to what Votto is doing in AAA makes Votto look like he has no clue what he is doing, when in fact Votto is pretty darn good.

  11. #10
    Member Stormy's Avatar
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    Re: Rangers to check out the young players...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Just nitpicking here, but Jay Bruce is the Reds best prospect, hitter or pitcher, probably the best prospect in baseball regardless of position and is in AAA. I don't suggest calling him up or anything, but what he is doing in AAA compared to what Votto is doing in AAA makes Votto look like he has no clue what he is doing, when in fact Votto is pretty darn good.
    I completely agree, doug. I simply meant that Votto would normally be the guy on a timeline to be called up, given his progression through the system. Bruce is simply otherworldly, and the type of talent you can't hardly quantify. A team suffering through a lost season would normally toss 100+ABs to it's almost 24 year old 1B prospect at this juncture (if not for the logjam?). Bruce is a guy you don't rush, but once he's ready, he's ready no matter what portion of the season it is.

    If Bruce closes out 2007 at AAA at the same clip he's posted there to date, he would likely be destined for a starting OF spot in 2008, in my opinion. The one positive about the Reds at the moment, despite the inconsistent F.O. direction, is the excitement of having a potential young core of Phillips, Hamilton, Votto, hopefully a resurgent EdE, with Bruce as the potential headliner all on the scene at such a young age. Handle the Dunn situation well, and acquire some SP/BP talent in the offseason, and this team could possibly reverse it's fortunes rather quickly. Just another reason I thought it wise to flip as many vets for young arms as possible this trading deadline.

  12. #11
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Rangers to check out the young players...

    Bruce, Cueto, and Votto. These three guys have decent shots of earning spots on the 25-man coming out of spring training next year.

    If the Reds are more than 50% sure that these guys will be ready by next April, then I FAVOR their being brought up in September or sooner. It wouldn't hurt for them to get acquainted with the quirks of big league life, and to get started learning the things you can only learn at the highest level.

    If, however, the Reds do not think that these guys will be ready until late 2008, then they should be left in the minors in order to not reach arbitration service time prematurely.

    Put another way, Joey Votto will become arbitration eligible NO SOONER than after the 2010 season, regardless of whether he sees his first big-league action tomorrow or next April.

    I also don't think that two months of drinking the firehose will shatter anybody's confidence. I realize that Votto is declining in the second half, but there's certain things one can only learn in the big leagues.

    Brooklyn R. brings up a good point that if Votto is NOT the real thing, his presence in the big leagues will expose that. But I wouldn't worry about that. It's not like the guy is Justin Upton. His buzz isn't THAT great. Unless Krivsky is getting sensational offers for him, the best way to increase his value is for him to get better.
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

  13. #12
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Rangers to check out the young players...

    We know that guys like Conine and Hatteberg will not be part of any future successful Reds season.

    We hope guys like EE and Votto are.

    Give the kids a chance to gain experience and improve in 2007.

  14. #13
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Rangers to check out the young players...

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    I agree with you that Votto has been where he belongs this season. However, *now* is the time of year when a last place franchise's best 23 year old bat who is progressing nicely, might normally start to get some August/September ABs in preparation for a MLB role in 2008. Do you not agree? However, unless Conine is moved during the waivers period, where is Votto going to get any ABs this year? With Hatteberg around another year, what type of LHH platoon would we be looking at? Where does Cantu and the .290sOBP he possesses fit into this plan?

    You're right, Votto certainly hasn't been blocked at this point, but I think at the very least we're now delaying his first tastes of the majors (and Wayne is hemming and hawing about when/if he might be ready, and has him playing LF)... who knows?
    I've guessed most of the season that the 1st base duo was not going to be here the entire season. I think Conine was brought in with that in mind. I would suspect that he will be gone by month's end and we'll see Votto with a September call-up (although I guess they can also decide to give Cantu a look/see throughout the field too).

    What's that saying, "The best laid plans of mice and men..." - I wonder if that isn't what has happened here. As much disparagement as there has been for Reds management, I think a singular accomplishment has been to not wipe out our up and coming prospects. Past administrations would have done that, I think. It's made it horribly ugly, the waiting.

    I don't know what the right answers are. Should Homer be up at season's end? I'm leaning towards no, shut him down once AAA is over (assuming he's off the DL by then). I suspect Hamilton will go on however long a rehab assignment will be down in Louisville and probably be back in September when the rosters expand. We're at that point now.

    I'm rambling, I know, but I don't disagree that the time has come to try these youngsters. I appreciate you understood that I was saying Conine & Hatte weren't the cause of Votto not being here. I like that we're giving these kids time to grow at each level - we have to keep in mind that, ultimately, the goal is to have the best team at GABP.


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