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Thread: Reds - Dunn with Edwin?

  1. #1
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Reds - Dunn with Edwin?

    Rocky Mountain News

    CINCINNATI apparently decided to give up on 3B Edwin Encarnacion, which led to acquiring malcontent Jorge Cantu from Tampa Bay. The Reds will work in August to find someone to take OF Adam Dunn.

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    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Reds - Dunn with Edwin?

    I think if that was true Cantu would be playing 3B in Louisville, not 2B.

    I wouldn't doubt that the Reds have soured some on EE and I wouldn't be surprised to see him traded in the off season.
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    You're soaking in it! MartyFan's Avatar
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    Re: Reds - Dunn with Edwin?

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    I think if that was true Cantu would be playing 3B in Louisville, not 2B.

    I wouldn't doubt that the Reds have soured some on EE and I wouldn't be surprised to see him traded in the off season.
    I agree.
    "Sometimes, it's not the sexiest moves that put you over the top," Krivsky said. "It's a series of transactions that help you get there."

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    Re: Reds - Dunn with Edwin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw View Post
    Rocky Mountain News

    CINCINNATI apparently decided to give up on 3B Edwin Encarnacion, which led to acquiring malcontent Jorge Cantu from Tampa Bay. The Reds will work in August to find someone to take OF Adam Dunn.
    Was there any more to the article to establish some semblance of credibility?

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Reds - Dunn with Edwin?

    Looks like Tracy had to struggle to find any copy on the Reds.

    http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm...656521,00.html

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    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Reds - Dunn with Edwin?

    Quote Originally Posted by joshnky View Post
    Was there any more to the article to establish some semblance of credibility?
    The article covered blurbs about every team.

    That was the extent of it...

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    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Reds - Dunn with Edwin?

    Cantu would be Bench like at 3rd, he's a 1B/OF type.
    Go Gators!

  9. #8
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Reds - Dunn with Edwin?

    Well, it's no secret that Edwin has been in the Reds doghouse this year.

    Let's hope Wayne gets canned before he has a chance to give Edwin away as well.

    Maybe there's something wrong with the GM when he decides so many players are "problems".. Kearns, Lopez, Edwin, Dunn, Hancock, etc.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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    Re: Reds - Dunn with Edwin?

    My opinion is that Edwin has played himself into the dog house this year. The problem really hasn't been playing time. The encouraging signs are that it's been his slugging that has faltered more than his OBP (and that's usually a more likely skill to recover for a player of his talents) and that his defense seems to have improved. I hope he plays himself out of the doghouse over the rest of the season as I suspect he'll get the opportunity.
    Last edited by pedro; 08-03-2007 at 07:33 PM.
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    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Reds - Dunn with Edwin?

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    My opinion is that Edwin has played himself into the dog house this year. The problem really hasn't been playing time. The encouraging signs are that it's been his slugging that has faltered more than his OBP (and that's usually a more likely skill to recover for a player of his talents) and that his defense seems to have improved. I hope he plays himself out of the doghouse over the rest of the season as I suspect he'll get the opportunity.
    I am in complete agreement, Pedro.

    My suspicion is that the Reds would like nothing better than for Edwin to step up and solve 3B for them for the next 10 years.

    His defense has improved somewhat (his range is excellent; he still struggles with the routine throw from time to time), but his bat has been a mystery this year.

    Here's to hoping he bounces back with the bat

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    Re: Reds - Dunn with Edwin?

    Ridiculous blurb.

    For once I wish this organization would get it right. Keep Dunn. Jettison the old guys and low OBP guys.

    Krivsky needs to go if he if thinks shipping off Dunn and EdE makes this team a contender for anything. I saw all I needed from Krivsky with the Kearns-Lopez trade.

  13. #12
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Reds - Dunn with Edwin?

    Let's take defense out of the equation for a minute. While he's still inconsistent, I think he's improved dramatically and would hypothesize that they are more frustrated with his bat at this point. So what happened?

    Code:
    Year	BA/OBP/SLG	K%	BB%	2B%	HR%	HR/FB	IFFB%	LD%/GB%/FB% 		BABIP	eBABIP
    2006	.276/.359/.473	19.2%	9.2%	7.1%	3.2%	12.1%	13.7	21.1%/41.4%/37.5%	.310	.331
    2007	.259/.338/.366	19.6%	8.4%	3.1%	1.9%	6.4%	19.3	18.4%/38.8%/42.7%	.302	.304
    %: #/PA
    BABIP: Batting Average on Balls in Play
    eBABIP; Expected Batting Average on Balls in Play (based on hit types)
    IFFB%: Infield Fly Ball %

    So, it seems like a pretty obvious story to me. His K rate is about the same. His BB is about the same. It's not likely a discipline or pitch selection issue. However, instead of driving the ball and hitting it squarely, he's hitting more fly balls, specifically more weak fly balls (aka pop ups). We can see that in his spike IFFB% and his significantly decreased HR/FB. This definitely matches a trend I've seen watching him. Seems like he pops out at least once a game, especially with RISP.

    I'm absolutely no scout, but from my very amateur eyes, I posit that his timing is way off, he's pulling off the ball, and his horrible balance is leading to weak swings, or swings that are too powerful and have uppercut. I saw Andruw Jones last night, who I know has had big issues pulling off the ball and he reminded me a lot of EE this year. He just can't seem to keep back and he's then forced to slow his hands down in order to make contact after he's also started his swing.

    And now I cross the line in to pure conjecture... Perhaps the pressure on him to keep his job, as shown by both Narron and Mac sitting him regularly and pulling him during games is making him more anxious. He just can't be relaxed enough and he's jumping out of his shoes to get that hit which will get him a little job security. When he came back from AAA, he had found that groove because the pressure was off. Dial it up a little thanks to a cold streak and a benching and BAM, back off kilter.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 08-03-2007 at 08:17 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  14. #13
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds - Dunn with Edwin?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I'm absolutely no scout, but from my very amateur eyes, I posit that his timing is way off, he's pulling off the ball, and his horrible balance is leading to weak swings, or swings that are too powerful and have uppercut.
    I'm no scout either, but my take is that Edwin is brutal at pitch recognition.

    He seems to pick up the ball late in the delivery and has to count on good bat speed to make up for the delay -- his late swings lead to an alarming amount of "bad contact" as any attempt to center the ball is sacraficed to ensure that he gets the bathead around to the hitting zone at all. This poor recognition also causes him to cheat a ton; making him a complete guess-hitter in a lot of fastball situations. If you look at his hitting charts, virtually all his hits go to left field. At home, he doesn't have a single extra base hit right of center field. Again, his lack of pitch recognition destroys any ability to go the other way with the baseball -- he's either pulling it with a blind swing, or he isn't hitting it at all.

    His late swings also manfiest themselves as a lot of free passes due to catchers interference. I think he's reached base at least 2 or 3 times this year due to swinging so late in the pitch that the makes contact with the catcher's glove as the catcher reaches forward to receive the baseball.

    I've been beyond disappointed with EE this year. They need to work him hard at picking the ball up earlier and recognizing spin/location, otherwise he's going to be a maddeningly inconsistent hitter (IMO) and face a substantial drop off as his bat speed diminishes.

    Again, though, I'm no scout.
    Last edited by Caveat Emperor; 08-03-2007 at 09:15 PM.
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  15. #14
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Reds - Dunn with Edwin?

    If he's consistently late, wouldn't we see him hitting more to RF?
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  16. #15
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    Re: Reds - Dunn with Edwin?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    If he's consistently late, wouldn't we see him hitting more to RF?
    Not necessarily -- he seems to be guessing a ton during fastball counts, which is why you see all his hits as pulls.
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