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Thread: Non-pitching propects ratings (categorized)

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    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Non-pitching propects ratings (categorized)

    When attempting to rate prospects the other day, I thought it was extremely difficult trying to figure out how one player should be rated above another, so it got me thinking. What if we could categorize all the prospects? It would make it easier to view the system we all so love to follow by sorting them out into categories such as age, level, position, etc.

    I have given each prospect a rating - 2*, 3*, 4*, and 5*. There is no need to rate anyone as a 1*, as they should not be included on the list and wouldn't be considered a prospect anyway. So far, I have only rated the "position" players. Eventually, I will rate the pitchers within the system and then mix them in with the position players to come up with a master list, if you will. All told, I found 30 non-pitching "prospects" within the system that I felt deserved a rating of 2* and above. To at least get a 2*, a prospect needed significant playing time this year, success in past years, or a pretty high draft position. Don't get me wrong, just because a prospect has a 2* rating doesn't mean that can't change. As all of you know, this isn't really an exact science, especially since I have not seen most of these prospects play and I only have their numbers, age, and other sources to go on.

    So, enjoy. Feel free to let me know if you think I'm missing something or if you think a prospect is not rated properly. Thanks.

    -BuckeyeRedleg

    ---------------------------------------------------------------


    Rating - grouped by age:

    20 & under
    (5*) Bruce, of...20.4, Louisville -AAA .947 OPS
    (4*) Mesoraco, c...18, GCL-Rookie .617 OPS
    (4*) Soto, ss...18, GCL-Rookie .820 OPS
    (4*) Francisco, 3b/1b...20.2, Dayton (low A) .736 OPS
    (3*) Reed, of...19.9, GCL-Rookie .827 OPS (combined GCL, Billings)

    21-22
    (4*) Frazier, ss/3b...21.7, Billings (Rookie) .814 OPS
    (4*) Waring, 3b...21.8, Billings (Rookie) .911OPS
    (3*) Long, c...21.4, Billings (Rookie) .848 OPS
    (3*) K. Jones, of...21.11, Dayton (low A) .832 OPS (combined Dayton, Billings)
    (2*) Bartles, 2b...21.0, Billings (Rookie) .877 OPS

    22-23
    (4*) Valaika, 3b/2b...22.0, Sarasota (hi A) .664 OPS (.847 @ Dayton-low A)
    (4*) Stubbs, cf...22.11, Dayton (low A) .744 OPS
    (3*) Heisey, of...22.8, Sarasota (hi A) .932 OPS (.785 @ Dayton-low A)
    (4*) Turner, 2b...22.9, Dayton (low A) .809
    (3*) Cozart, ss...22.0, Dayton (low A) .628
    (2*) Menchaca, of...22.4, Billings (Rookie) .816 OPS
    (2*) McKennon, 1b...22.5, Billings (Rookie) .925 OPS
    (2*) Maunus, of...22.6, Billings (Rookie) .826 OPS

    23-24
    (5*) Votto, 1b...23.11, Louisville -AAA .853 OPS
    (4*) Dorn, of...23.1, Chattanooga-AA 1.066 OPS (.815 OPS @ Sarasota-hi A)
    (3*) Parker, 1b...23.1, Dayton (low A) .788 OPS
    (2*) Griffin, 2b/3b...23.10, Sarasota (hi A) .767 OPS

    24-25
    (3*) Tatum, c...24.5, Chattanooga-AA .701 OPS (.873 OPS @ Sarasota-hi A)
    (3*) Rosales, util, of...24.3, Chattanooga-AA .826 OPS (.881 OPS @ Sarasota-hi A)
    (3*) Janish, ss...24.10, Louisville -AAA .553 OPS (.688 OPS @ Chattanooga-AA)
    (2*) Anderson, 2b...24.6, Chattanooga-AA .707 OPS
    (2*) Szymanski, cf...24.10, Sarasota (hi A) .686 OPS
    (2*) Strait, of...24.4, Sarasota (hi A) .663 OPS
    (2*) DeJesus, 2b...24.1, Sarasota (hi A) .709 OPS

    25-26
    (3*) Dickerson, of...20.4, Louisville -AAA

    ---------------------------------------------------------------


    Rating - grouped by team (level):

    Louisville-AAA
    (5*) Bruce, of...20.4, Louisville -AAA .947 OPS
    (5*) Votto, 1b...23.11, Louisville -AAA .853 OPS
    (3*) Dickerson, of...20.4, Louisville -AAA
    (3*) Janish, ss...24.10, Louisville -AAA .553 OPS (.688 OPS @ Chattanooga-AA)

    Chattanooga-AA
    (4*) Dorn, of...23.1, Chattanooga-AA 1.066 OPS (.815 OPS @ Sarasota-hi A)
    (3*) Tatum, c...24.5, Chattanooga-AA .701 OPS (.873 OPS @ Sarasota-hi A)
    (3*) Rosales, util, of...24.3, Chattanooga-AA .826 OPS (.881 OPS @ Sarasota-hi A)
    (2*) Anderson, 2b...24.6, Chattanooga-AA .707 OPS

    Sarasota-High A
    (4*) Valaika, 3b/2b...22.0, Sarasota (hi A) .664 OPS (.847 @ Dayton-low A)
    (3*) Heisey, of...22.8, Sarasota (hi A) .932 OPS (.785 @ Dayton-low A)
    (2*) Griffin, 2b/3b...23.10, Sarasota (hi A) .767 OPS
    (2*) Szymanski, cf...24.10, Sarasota (hi A) .686 OPS
    (2*) Strait, of...24.4, Sarasota (hi A) .663 OPS
    (2*) DeJesus, 2b...24.1, Sarasota (hi A) .709 OPS

    Dayton-Low A
    (4*) Francisco, 3b/1b...20.2, Dayton (low A) .736 OPS
    (4*) Stubbs, cf...22.11, Dayton (low A) .744 OPS
    (4*) Turner, 2b...22.9, Dayton (low A) .809
    (3*) Parker, 1b...23.1, Dayton (low A) .788 OPS
    (3*) K. Jones, of...21.11, Dayton (low A) .832 OPS (combined Dayton, Billings)
    (3*) Cozart, ss...22.0, Dayton (low A) .628

    Billings-Rookie
    (4*) Frazier, ss/3b...21.7, Billings (Rookie) .814 OPS
    (4*) Waring, 3b...21.8, Billings (Rookie) .911OPS
    (3*) Long, c...21.4, Billings (Rookie) .848 OPS
    (2*) Menchaca, of...22.4, Billings (Rookie) .816 OPS
    (2*) McKennon, 1b...22.5, Billings (Rookie) .925 OPS
    (2*) Maunus, of...22.6, Billings (Rookie) .826 OPS
    (2*) Bartles, 2b...21.0, Billings (Rookie) .877 OPS

    Sarasota-Rookie
    (4*) Mesoraco, c...18, GCL-Rookie .617 OPS
    (4*) Soto, ss...18, GCL-Rookie .820 OPS
    (3*) Reed, of...19.9, GCL-Rookie .827 OPS (combined GCL, Billings)

    ---------------------------------------------------------------


    Rating - grouped by experience:

    Year 1 (drafted or signed in 2007)

    (4*) Mesoraco, c...18, GCL-Rookie .617 OPS
    (4*) Frazier, ss/3b...21.7, Billings (Rookie) .814 OPS
    (4*) Soto, ss...18, GCL-Rookie .820 OPS
    (4*) Waring, 3b...21.8, Billings (Rookie) .911OPS
    (3*) Cozart, ss...22.0, Dayton (low A) .628
    (2*) Bartles, 2b...21.0, Billings (Rookie) .877 OPS
    (2*) Menchaca, of...22.4, Billings (Rookie) .816 OPS
    (2*) Maunus, of...22.6, Billings (Rookie) .826 OPS


    Year 2 (drafted or signed in 2006)

    (4*) Francisco, 3b/1b...20.2, Dayton (low A) .736 OPS
    (4*) Valaika, 3b/2b...22.0, Sarasota (hi A) .664 OPS (.847 @ Dayton-low A)
    (4*) Dorn, of...23.1, Chattanooga-AA 1.066 OPS (.815 OPS @ Sarasota-hi A)
    (4*) Turner, 2b...22.9, Dayton (low A) .809
    (4*) Stubbs, cf...22.11, Dayton (low A) .744 OPS
    (3*) Heisey, of...22.8, Sarasota (hi A) .932 OPS (.785 @ Dayton-low A)
    (3*) Reed, of...19.9, GCL-Rookie .827 OPS (combined GCL, Billings)
    (3*) Parker, 1b...23.1, Dayton (low A) .788 OPS
    (3*) Long, c...21.4, Billings (Rookie) .848 OPS
    (3*) K. Jones, of...21.11, Dayton (low A) .832 OPS (combined Dayton, Billings)
    (2*) McKennon, 1b...22.5, Billings (Rookie) .925 OPS



    Year 3 (drafted or signed in 2005)

    (5*) Bruce, of...20.4, Louisville -AAA .947 OPS
    (3*) Rosales, util, of...24.3, Chattanooga-AA .826 OPS (.881 OPS @ Sarasota-hi A)
    (2*) Griffin, 2b/3b...23.10, Sarasota (hi A) .767 OPS
    (2*) DeJesus, 2b...24.1, Sarasota (hi A) .709 OPS



    Year 4 (drafted or signed in 2004)

    (3*) Tatum, c...24.5, Chattanooga-AA .701 OPS (.873 OPS @ Sarasota-hi A)
    (3*) Janish, ss...24.10, Louisville -AAA .553 OPS (.688 OPS @ Chattanooga-AA)
    (2*) Anderson, 2b...24.6, Chattanooga-AA .707 OPS
    (2*) Strait, of...24.4, Sarasota (hi A) .663 OPS
    (2*) Szymanski, cf...24.10, Sarasota (hi A) .686 OPS



    Year 5 (drafted or signed in 2003)

    (3*) Dickerson, of...20.4, Louisville -AAA



    Year 6 (drafted or signed in 2002)

    (5*) Votto, 1b...23.11, Louisville -AAA .853 OPS

    ---------------------------------------------------------------


    Rated - grouped by position

    Catcher
    (4*) Mesoraco, c...18, GCL-Rookie .617 OPS
    (3*) Tatum, c...24.5, Chattanooga-AA .701 OPS (.873 OPS @ Sarasota-hi A)
    (3*) Long, c...21.4, Billings (Rookie) .848 OPS

    First Base
    (5*) Votto, 1b...23.11, Louisville -AAA .853 OPS
    (4*) Francisco, 3b/1b...20.2, Dayton (low A) .736 OPS
    (3*) Parker, 1b...23.1, Dayton (low A) .788 OPS
    (2*) McKennon, 1b...22.5, Billings (Rookie) .925 OPS

    Second Base
    (4*) Turner, 2b...22.9, Dayton (low A) .809
    (2*) Anderson, 2b...24.6, Chattanooga-AA .707 OPS
    (2*) Griffin, 2b/3b...23.10, Sarasota (hi A) .767 OPS
    (2*) DeJesus, 2b...24.1, Sarasota (hi A) .709 OPS
    (2*) Bartles, 2b...21.0, Billings (Rookie) .877 OPS

    Third Base
    (4*) Valaika, 3b/2b...22.0, Sarasota (hi A) .664 OPS (.847 @ Dayton-low A)
    (4*) Frazier, ss/3b...21.7, Billings (Rookie) .814 OPS
    (4*) Waring, 3b...21.8, Billings (Rookie) .911OPS

    Shortstop
    (4*) Soto, ss...18, GCL-Rookie .820 OPS
    (3*) Janish, ss...24.10, Louisville -AAA .553 OPS (.688 OPS @ Chattanooga-AA)
    (3*) Cozart, ss...22.0, Dayton (low A) .628

    Outfield
    (5*) Bruce, of...20.4, Louisville -AAA .947 OPS
    (4*) Stubbs, cf...22.11, Dayton (low A) .744 OPS
    (4*) Dorn, of...23.1, Chattanooga-AA 1.066 OPS (.815 OPS @ Sarasota-hi A)
    (3*) Dickerson, of...20.4, Louisville -AAA
    (3*) Heisey, of...22.8, Sarasota (hi A) .932 OPS (.785 @ Dayton-low A)
    (3*) Reed, of...19.9, GCL-Rookie .827 OPS (combined GCL, Billings)
    (3*) K. Jones, of...21.11, Dayton (low A) .832 OPS (combined Dayton, Billings)
    (2*) Szymanski, cf...24.10, Sarasota (hi A) .686 OPS
    (2*) Strait, of...24.4, Sarasota (hi A) .663 OPS
    (2*) Menchaca, of...22.4, Billings (Rookie) .816 OPS
    (2*) Maunus, of...22.6, Billings (Rookie) .826 OPS

    Utility
    (3*) Rosales, util, of...24.3, Chattanooga-AA .826 OPS (.881 OPS @ Sarasota-hi A)

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    Rated - Total

    (5*) Bruce, of...20.4, Louisville -AAA .947 OPS
    (5*) Votto, 1b...23.11, Louisville -AAA .853 OPS

    (4*) Valaika, 3b/2b...22.0, Sarasota (hi A) .664 OPS (.847 @ Dayton-low A)
    (4*) Francisco, 3b/1b...20.2, Dayton (low A) .736 OPS
    (4*) Mesoraco, c...18, GCL-Rookie .617 OPS
    (4*) Frazier, ss/3b...21.7, Billings (Rookie) .814 OPS
    (4*) Stubbs, cf...22.11, Dayton (low A) .744 OPS
    (4*) Dorn, of...23.1, Chattanooga-AA 1.066 OPS (.815 OPS @ Sarasota-hi A)
    (4*) Turner, 2b...22.9, Dayton (low A) .809
    (4*) Soto, ss...18, GCL-Rookie .820 OPS
    (4*) Waring, 3b...21.8, Billings (Rookie) .911OPS

    (3*) Heisey, of...22.8, Sarasota (hi A) .932 OPS (.785 @ Dayton-low A)
    (3*) Tatum, c...24.5, Chattanooga-AA .701 OPS (.873 OPS @ Sarasota-hi A)
    (3*) Dickerson, of...20.4, Louisville -AAA
    (3*) Reed, of...19.9, GCL-Rookie .827 OPS (combined GCL, Billings)
    (3*) Rosales, util, of...24.3, Chattanooga-AA .826 OPS (.881 OPS @ Sarasota-hi A)
    (3*) Janish, ss...24.10, Louisville -AAA .553 OPS (.688 OPS @ Chattanooga-AA)
    (3*) Parker, 1b...23.1, Dayton (low A) .788 OPS
    (3*) Cozart, ss...22.0, Dayton (low A) .628
    (3*) Long, c...21.4, Billings (Rookie) .848 OPS
    (3*) K. Jones, of...21.11, Dayton (low A) .832 OPS (combined Dayton, Billings)

    (2*) Anderson, 2b...24.6, Chattanooga-AA .707 OPS
    (2*) Griffin, 2b/3b...23.10, Sarasota (hi A) .767 OPS
    (2*) Szymanski, cf...24.10, Sarasota (hi A) .686 OPS
    (2*) Strait, of...24.4, Sarasota (hi A) .663 OPS
    (2*) McKennon, 1b...22.5, Billings (Rookie) .925 OPS
    (2*) Bartles, 2b...21.0, Billings (Rookie) .877 OPS
    (2*) Menchaca, of...22.4, Billings (Rookie) .816 OPS
    (2*) DeJesus, 2b...24.1, Sarasota (hi A) .709 OPS
    (2*) Maunus, of...22.6, Billings (Rookie) .826 OPS
    Last edited by BuckeyeRedleg; 08-10-2007 at 08:07 PM.

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    Re: Non-pitching propects ratings (categorized)

    Wow, Buckeye, I'm guessing that didn't take you very long.

    I'm curious as to why you have Mesoraco rated higher than Neftali Soto, despite both being the same age and level, with Soto's OPS a good 200 points higher. Did you just weight ceiling heavier than other factors?

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    Re: Non-pitching propects ratings (categorized)

    I think you did a very great job in your ratings. I would like to see Denis Phipps(low A) added as a 2*. He has a tremendous upside and will be pretty good when he figures a few things out.

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    Re: Non-pitching propects ratings (categorized)

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwball View Post
    Wow, Buckeye, I'm guessing that didn't take you very long.

    I'm curious as to why you have Mesoraco rated higher than Neftali Soto, despite both being the same age and level, with Soto's OPS a good 200 points higher. Did you just weight ceiling heavier than other factors?
    Yes. The fact that he's a number 1 pick. Don't get me wrong, this list is not static, so I will use a players hot streak or cold streak to move them up and down. I just can't justify letting one month of games move Soto over Mesoraco. That could change, however, even as soon as this off-season.

    I think Mesoraco will finish somewhere above .700 (.700-.750) and that will be okay with me. If he were in Billings, I'd expect him to finish at least .750-.800. I'll be honest, I'll be a tad worried (and disappointed) if he doesn't at least get it over .700.

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    Re: Non-pitching propects ratings (categorized)

    Quote Originally Posted by Redman15 View Post
    I think you did a very great job in your ratings. I would like to see Denis Phipps(low A) added as a 2*. He has a tremendous upside and will be pretty good when he figures a few things out.
    Thank you.

    Yes, Phipps is one I considered putting on the list (with a 2*). He's had a bunch of AB's, that's for sure. How is his glove and arm out there? If he's, say a 60 or above in field and throw, I could see moving him in there.

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    Re: Non-pitching propects ratings (categorized)

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    Thank you.

    Yes, Phipps is one I considered putting on the list (with a 2*). He's had a bunch of AB's, that's for sure. How is his glove and arm out there? If he's, say a 60 or above in field and throw, I could see moving him in there.
    I am not quite sure how I would rate him on "the scale" but he looks to be solid in every aspect of the game w/ the exception of plate discipline IMO. Although it's below avg, it's no where near as bad as Francisco's.

    He's definitely worthy of consideration. In fact he has more talent than Heisey but far less polish at this point.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

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    Re: Non-pitching propects ratings (categorized)

    The Dragons had 3 center fielders in their starting line-up. Heisey played left and Phipps plays right. IMO Heisey is the best of the three. Stubbs defense is outstanding. Phipps has the best arm. Heisey had the best all around package(offense and defense).

    I think when Denis fills out(he's 6'2 and about 170 lbs) he is going to be fun to watch. He has only been playing baseball about three years. He only played Basketball growing up. He didn't play baseball until after high school.
    Last edited by Redman15; 08-10-2007 at 08:33 PM.

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    Re: Non-pitching propects ratings (categorized)

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    Yes. The fact that he's a number 1 pick. Don't get me wrong, this list is not static, so I will use a players hot streak or cold streak to move them up and down. I just can't justify letting one month of games move Soto over Mesoraco. That could change, however, even as soon as this off-season.

    I think Mesoraco will finish somewhere above .700 (.700-.750) and that will be okay with me. If he were in Billings, I'd expect him to finish at least .750-.800. I'll be honest, I'll be a tad worried (and disappointed) if he doesn't at least get it over .700.
    Question....
    Why would you expect him to have a higher OPS at a higher level than he is currently at?

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    Re: Non-pitching propects ratings (categorized)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Question....
    Why would you expect him to have a higher OPS at a higher level than he is currently at?
    Because Billings is a notorious hitters league. For example, look at the OPS of every member of the 2006 draft class that played in Billings (with the exception of Stubbs).

    I understand they were college bats, but I think the altitude out there makes a fairly large difference.

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    Re: Non-pitching propects ratings (categorized)

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    Because Billings is a notorious hitters league. For example, look at the OPS of every member of the 2006 draft class that played in Billings (with the exception of Stubbs).

    I understand they were college bats, but I think the altitude out there makes a fairly large difference.
    Maybe so, but its also a step up in competition.....

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    Re: Non-pitching propects ratings (categorized)

    It just always seems that hitters struggle in the GCL, but that very well could be due to the fact that they are always younger and, at that level, young HS pitchers are a step above young HS hitters. So, as hitters make the step up to Billings they may have caught up with the pitchers. I think I may be forgetting about that when expecting a higher OPS in Billings, sp you have a point.

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    Re: Non-pitching propects ratings (categorized)

    hmm....where's the 28+ age group ??

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    Re: Non-pitching propects ratings (categorized)

    Quote Originally Posted by KeyMastur View Post
    hmm....where's the 28+ age group ??
    Mostly in Louisville!
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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    Re: Non-pitching propects ratings (categorized)

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    It just always seems that hitters struggle in the GCL, but that very well could be due to the fact that they are always younger and, at that level, young HS pitchers are a step above young HS hitters. So, as hitters make the step up to Billings they may have caught up with the pitchers. I think I may be forgetting about that when expecting a higher OPS in Billings, sp you have a point.
    half the time there's college pitchers in short-seasons that are just out of the draft, so wouldn't you think they'd still be the ones a step above at that level ??

    GCL has some inexperienced HS and young college pitchers that need refinement on their mechanics / mental side of pitching. they don't exactly throw strikes all the time...sometimes they can have that "wildly effective" status going for them....

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    Re: Non-pitching propects ratings (categorized)

    Quote Originally Posted by KeyMastur View Post
    hmm....where's the 28+ age group ??
    Dude, if there was I promise you'd at least have (2*).


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